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Why can't people who leave the LDS church move on?

Core4 said:
I think with anything, the vocal ones get the attention. Millions of LDS have left the church or are less active. The majority of those just move on quietly. I've come across several people who were baptized LDS and either became inactive in childhood with other family members or were active adults and who are not anymore - and I never knew until some chance comment. On the other hand, there are also a few I know who are very vocal in their opposition. And It's generally because of some "wrong" that was suffered (real or perceived) and of which they can't let go. I think it is particularly acute if that person had an expressed belief or action that led to disfellowship or excommunication, especially if it relates to a "hot-topic" issue that is a cause celebre.

Religion, whether in the LDS church or some other faith, implants itself in one's very core, offering direction, hope, a reason for persevering through hardships and tragedy. I often find myself wondering how those without a belief in a Higher Power or life hereafter deal with situations that would put me completely under...if not for my belief that eventually things will turn around and this life is but just one part of my eternal existence and progression. Call me weak, but my major strength in life - and one I have clung to many times - is a belief in the eternal nature of family. Without that, I doubt I'd find much joy or value in the day-to-day struggles, in the morass of wars, crime, abuse and lack of values that seem increasingly prevalent in the US and world-wide with each passing decade.

I can certainly understand the betrayal and loss some feel when they no longer believe in the LDS or some other church, or lose their faith in religion in general or even in a Higher Power.
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Is it the core4...?
 
just my two cents..

I've known many Mormon folks in Utah and elsewhere that left the religion.

Those in Utah seem much less likely to not be able to let it go when people outside Utah seem to have very little problem with it.
I suspect it's that way because of the inability to escape the topic, for even a day, in Utah. (pretty much what kicky said but with a less intelligent delivery)
 
PKM said:
just my two cents..

I've known many Mormon folks in Utah and elsewhere that left the religion.

Those in Utah seem much less likely to not be able to let it go when people outside Utah seem to have very little problem with it.
I suspect it's that way because of the inability to escape the topic, for even a day, in Utah. (pretty much what kicky said but with a less intelligent delivery)
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I agree but I see it here in California too.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Not a stereotype, but likely someone bean knows who is doing this exact thing at this moment. I lived through it for 10 years+ with my sister-in-law who left the church after serial fornication and then became staunchly anti-mormon, indeed joining a church whose primary focus was helping to free people from the lies and bondage of the LDS church. You say stereotype just because you haven't dealt with a similar circumstance, but it is very real. And maybe "everyone" bean knows who has left the church is 3 people, in which case every is a true statement. I can say that I have acquaintances and friends who fit the spectrum, with several (if not many) who have left the church under similar circumstances as my SIL and then went down that same path of active hatred and fighting against it.
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You are wrong that I have never dealt with this. In fact, I wrote a book in which issues similar to this play a central role. While there are undoubtedly people who fit bean's description, there are many who do not. That's all I was taking issue with. Perhaps I should have said "over-generalization" instead of "stereotype."
 
Cause they lame
 
FWIW, talking **** about those with different values/beliefs/behaviors is a central tenet of the Mormon faith. It's no surprise that ex-Mormons have trouble shaking it. Glass houses and all.
 
GVC said:
FWIW, talking **** about those with different values/beliefs/behaviors is a central tenet of the Mormon faith. It's no surprise that ex-Mormons have trouble shaking it. Glass houses and all.
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Agree with Archie. It's the culture, and not necessarily the beliefs. But the thing is with Mormonism, at least in the Utah Mormon religion, culture is not easily separated from the religion.
 
I think it probably depends on why the individual left the church and what their "new" beliefs are. I was raised mormon, baptized the whole bit, and just simply don't believe in any of it. I have no hard feelings towards mormons and actually think that as far as religions go they are generally pretty nice people. I think that people who leave for another sect of christianity may actually believe the church is evil.

I will say that every mormon family has that one middle aged woman that is so holier than though that half the people in the room(including and maybe most especially her immediate family)want to smack the living **** out of her. Other than that one, I'm cool.
 
Nate505 said:
just a theory with no evidence, but it seems the more dogmatic/strict and/or closed the religion is, the more people who leave it lash out against it.

for example I don't hear about too many former methodists lashing out against the church other than perhaps one or two policies they disagree with (like to allow gay ministers). same with the other mainstream protestant denominations.

I hear more lashing out from former catholics, muslims, and ldsers probably because they are both tired of the strictness, and because people they know who are still a part of the church pressure them more about it than say a methodist would

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This probably doubly true for religions that take a large financial bite out of believers.

The religions that seem to have the on-average angriest former members are LDS and Scientology.
 
I used to be religious but then some of my friends introduced me to Mountain Dew and Doritos and I became less and less religious. I have eventually grown a neckbeard and started wearing a fedora to match my Richard Dawkins screensaver because I lack a religion so much. The reason I hate religious people is because of fundie chicks keep rejecting me on dates. It is ok, I am euphoric not because of some phonee gods blessing but because I am enlightened by my own intelligence.
 
heyhey said:
I think it probably depends on why the individual left the church and what their "new" beliefs are. I was raised mormon, baptized the whole bit, and just simply don't believe in any of it. I have no hard feelings towards mormons and actually think that as far as religions go they are generally pretty nice people. I think that people who leave for another sect of christianity may actually believe the church is evil.

I will say that every mormon family has that one middle aged woman that is so holier than though that half the people in the room(including and maybe most especially her immediate family)want to smack the living **** out of her. Other than that one, I'm cool.
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In my family that woman keeps her mouth shut out of self preservation. Way to many type A personalities to get away with that.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I've moved on.

I respect people that i know that still follow it.
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This is me. I left a long time ago. I'll still defend the church to some degree, even though I'm not a part of it.
.
The only problem I now have is my own family. After 20+ years of not going and not having anything to do with the church I still have to avoid certain topics around my parents because they are still trying to bring me back and get my wife to join (who is catholic by birth but treats her ex-church like I do). It would have been easier for me to forget it and move on had they left me alone about it. But a lot of families in the LDS faith see it as their failure if their children don't follow their beliefs.
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I had no desire to hate on their religion or their faith but they made that hard by continuing with pressure to come back. I occasionally in my younger days attacked their religion just to get them to drop it for a while. I did not nor do have any special hate for the LDS just a general non-interest until someone puts pressure on me to join. That holds true with any religion though.
 
gregbroncs said:
This is me. I left a long time ago. I'll still defend the church to some degree, even though I'm not a part of it.
.
The only problem I now have is my own family. After 20+ years of not going and not having anything to do with the church I still have to avoid certain topics around my parents because they are still trying to bring me back and get my wife to join (who is catholic by birth but treats her ex-church like I do). It would have been easier for me to forget it and move on had they left me alone about it. But a lot of families in the LDS faith see it as their failure if their children don't follow their beliefs.
.
I had no desire to hate on their religion or their faith but they made that hard by continuing with pressure to come back. I occasionally in my younger days attacked their religion just to get them to drop it for a while. I did not nor do have any special hate for the LDS just a general non-interest until someone puts pressure on me to join. That holds true with any religion though.
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And being smothered with the culture/belief from the day you are born. Blessing, Sunday school, only play with other Mormon kids, baptism, church 3 hours on Sunday, youth activity nights etc. Once they start deciding that that might not be the life for them they get a lot of pressure from family, church members & "friends".
 
In response to gregbroncs..

If your parents truly believe their faith (and I obviously assume they do) and they believe in eternal life with a Heavenly Father, I would expect no less from parents that love you. I'm fairly certain you don't blame them for doing it as much as you just find it a nuisance and a topic you would simply rather to avoid.

Having said that, the LDS religion, much more so than any I've encountered that is Christ centered, put an extreme emphasis on the church itself. Meaning, as a Christian myself, I of course want my kids to make it to Heaven. However, it's about Jesus to me... not Baptist or southern Baptist, or Assembly of God or whatever denomination.

I know the LDS believe the 'one true church' stuff, but right or wrong, it makes the "come back to church" thing much more over-bearing.
I want my kids to come to Christ and let He and they sort things out. I'm not concerned about which building they attend, what days of tge week they do what, or that they have to subscribe to a long list of ordinances set out by a long list of denomination-specific prophets.

Not one word of that was a bash, was just trying to paint (albeit with a broad brush) a picture as to why it's more of a pain to leave (and be summoner back to) a very legalistic religious belief system.
 
gregbroncs said:
This is me. I left a long time ago. I'll still defend the church to some degree, even though I'm not a part of it.
.
The only problem I now have is my own family. After 20+ years of not going and not having anything to do with the church I still have to avoid certain topics around my parents because they are still trying to bring me back and get my wife to join (who is catholic by birth but treats her ex-church like I do). It would have been easier for me to forget it and move on had they left me alone about it. But a lot of families in the LDS faith see it as their failure if their children don't follow their beliefs.
.
I had no desire to hate on their religion or their faith but they made that hard by continuing with pressure to come back. I occasionally in my younger days attacked their religion just to get them to drop it for a while. I did not nor do have any special hate for the LDS just a general non-interest until someone puts pressure on me to join. That holds true with any religion though.
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Chad Feldheimer said:
And being smothered with the culture/belief from the day you are born. Blessing, Sunday school, only play with other Mormon kids, baptism, church 3 hours on Sunday, youth activity nights etc. Once they start deciding that that might not be the life for them they get a lot of pressure from family, church members & "friends".
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This is a tough thing, as deeply ingrained as the mormon religion is into our families. We are dealing with a similar situation right now, but in reverse, I guess you might say.

My oldest son is 20. After hemming and hawing about it for a year and a half he didn't go on a mission. He stopped going to church once he got out on his own, and has recently moved in with his girlfriend, who has separated from her husband but whose divorce is not yet finalized. Now she is pregnant. He pays lip service to the church, and claims he goes now and then, but it is all a smoke screen so we don't come down on him, which we haven't done.

And so we (my wife more than me) struggle with the idea that somehow we failed him. He didn't get something he needed or in some other way we screwed up. But I think that is a cultural thing, and partially based in the dogma of the religion, that we fail our children and in our personal development if our kids don't make the "right" choices, so it cuts close to home in more ways than one, and that attitude is one reason I have distanced myself somewhat from the religion over the years.

When people hear we have a 20-y.o. son, they ask when he gets home from his mission. When we tell them he isn't on a mission we get the whole "oh, well. that's um...well you know everyone has...ok...um <awkward laughter and throat clearing> hey look, someone brought jello!" No one knows what to saw and the sideways glances are inevitable. It bothers my wife a lot. I let it mostly roll off, but largely because I already know the LDS church is one of the most judgemental groups (culturally) I have ever been associated with, so I expect it and just roll with it. But she feels like she failed as a parent, and the reactions she gets from church members reinforces those feelings of failure.

Our daughter who just turned 18 and graduated from High School this year was far more active than our son and has been talking about a mission for the past 2-3 years, ever since she went to EFY. That is, until her boyfriend of 2 years, who is going to BYU Idaho, decided he wasn't going on a mission because he doesn't know if he even believes in God and started pressuring her to come to BYU Idaho with him. She now wants to transfer there instead of go on her mission.

This has my wife in tears almost nightly. She feels like she is losing all of her kids. Granted, we have been far from perfect mormon parents, but we have always encouraged our kids to find out the truth for themselves. They have all read the BoM, most of them more than once. They all participated in all the youth activities, etc. We have been probably 75% active over our marriage, with the biggest drop-offs during 9:00 am block times as 9:00 am is TOO FREAKING EARLY FOR CHURCH. 11:00 is perfect.

We have tried to do the "right things" with probably an 60% rate of FHE and family prayer and scripture study. Regular monthly date-nights with each kid we go over their goals and what they want to do in their lives and stress the importance of mission and temple marriage, etc. Father's blessings and other blessings as the situation may warrant (illness, start of school year, tough time in kids life, etc.)

But in the end, no matter what you do, or don't do, they choose for themselves what they believe, and they will act on it as part of their own free agency. It is hard to get my wife to see this and recognize all she can do at this point is love them, provide wise and loving counsel, and accept them for who they are. So we try to teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. Sounds good, but in this culture, where you know you are being talked about, and often looked down on, if your family doesn't meet the high requirements set forth by the unwritten rules of mormon societal norms, it doesn't hold a lot of water. The sins of the sons will be answered on the heads of the fathers, so to speak.

Is it really any wonder, in a culture with pressures like that, that is so all-pervasive, that when people do pry themselves away from it, depending on how deep they were in it to begin with, there is going to be bitterness and anger and lashing out, as it would feel like you are tearing yourself apart at the core, and the church would be to blame.
 
PKM said:
In response to gregbroncs..

If your parents truly believe their faith (and I obviously assume they do) and they believe in eternal life with a Heavenly Father, I would expect no less from parents that love you. I'm fairly certain you don't blame them for doing it as much as you just find it a nuisance and a topic you would simply rather to avoid.

Having said that, the LDS religion, much more so than any I've encountered that is Christ centered, put an extreme emphasis on the church itself. Meaning, as a Christian myself, I of course want my kids to make it to Heaven. However, it's about Jesus to me... not Baptist or southern Baptist, or Assembly of God or whatever denomination.

I know the LDS believe the 'one true church' stuff, but right or wrong, it makes the "come back to church" thing much more over-bearing.
I want my kids to come to Christ and let He and they sort things out. I'm not concerned about which building they attend, what days of tge week they do what, or that they have to subscribe to a long list of ordinances set out by a long list of denomination-specific prophets.

Not one word of that was a bash, was just trying to paint (albeit with a broad brush) a picture as to why it's more of a pain to leave (and be summoner back to) a very legalistic religious belief system.
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Just like everything else in this world, there are tradeoffs. Having a highly structuralized, centralized central church that permeates much of a communities life keeps their beliefs fairly omnipresent, and encourages followers to obey them-- even to the extent where people behave they way they do 'because they're supposed to', without much after-thought.

The problem with every highly-structuralized community, is that the more something permeates your life, the harder it is to not have it at the forefront of your thoughts, and actions on a daily basis. What i mean by this, is if you're a mormon living in Utah County, the church becomes something that isn't left to the confines of your home. It becomes a culture. Families are placed in hierarchies, based on how "pure" they are. People who leave the church, or refuse to follow it, are generally looked upon negatively.


Personally, I think this is mostly a Utah thing (in terms of mormonism). It's very easy to get sucked into a culture when most of your town, city, or state is mormon. One of the most beautiful things about multiculturalism (or destructive-- depending on which way you approach it) is the trend of just having people from all sorts of faiths, cultures, ethnicities being hurled together into one spot. It fosters mutual appreciation, and manages to take a chunk out of the holier-than-thou attitudes to some extent. Of course, from a church-perspective, leaving a community where the majority is mormon could mean that their followers might 'deviate' from their perceived path to a higher degree.

/soapbox
 
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