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Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

Sneakers said:
Bringing up Hayward's 4 game playoff stats is idiotic and laughable. I'm not for an overpay here but that's just a lazy argument. Four games guys. For ****s sake
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I'm just saying its a piece of information. Not saying...zomg he is terrible and will never perform in the playoffs!!!

Just saying he shrunk and looked absolutely terrible when he was hot going into those playoffs. Why should we not pay attention to that?

I just think it's hard to cherry pick what's relevant. It's the same concern that exists about Hayward's terrible 1st halves to each season. Why does that happen?
 
I know it seems like I'm piling on but I have just become annoyed at the thought of paying him more than $11 M per for what he brings.

I think what he brings is easily replaceable for less than 10 and I've gotten to the point where if he won't agree to $11 M per...trade him for assets that would include a high first this next draft.
 
IMO his current worth is around 8mil, his potential worth if he lives up to it is about 11mil so understandably he wants to hold out to get his money, I would GUESS the Jazz probably offered him around 9mil-9.5mil over 4yr.

But then I also think this year Favors current worth is around 9mil and the Jazz decided to pay him with incentives that could earn him reportedly around 12mil and bigs always get paid more, doesn't always make it right but it doesn't change that it is what it is.

Feels like this thread of 8pages of repeating itself. Some saying pay/give Hay his 13mil (not sure if they realize that is within a few hundred thousand of the max that can be offered to him) then most trying to convince that crowd why it isn't a good idea to just give that to him and then others debating between 12mil-9mil a year is what he should get.
 
b_line said:
Yes it is bad, but you can't call a 4 game sample size "playoff stats". And you especially can't call them that when your best offensive weapon basically tells the other team he gives up, giving the opposing team license to sag off of him, and only guard the players that are going to score, or care about the game.

yes, I get that Hayward sucked in the playoffs, but lets wait to compare him to anyone who has had playoff success until he actually plays some playoff games with a team built for the playoffs. I get that he sucked that series, but you can not just ignore the other 200 or so games he has played and say he is that player because of 4 playoff appearances.
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For good or bad, what a player does in the playoffs is always magnified. And 4-game playoff performance IS significant when said player expects to be deserving of more than $10 million/year. And frankly, nothing I've seen in the 200 or so games you reference indicates he will be a cornerstone of this franchise.

A team that wants to contend for a championship and yet stay under the salary cap can only afford 4 players making 8-figures a year. Favors is already one of them and we expect Kanter to be another. So who should the other two be? Burke? Hayward? Gobert? An FA? Our 2014 pick? Realistically, giving $10+ million to Hayward will hurt this team's ability to assemble a championship team, because Favors and Hayward (and throw in Kanter and Burke) are not good enough to get us a championship if the rest of the team are scrubs.
 
Lindsey just said that Favor agents first question during negotiations want about money. He asked if the Jazz would be able to keep the young core intact. That's a sign of good chemistry amoung the Core.

Also possibly a sign that Hayward stays long term.
 
Funny that now jazz fans are seeing Hayward as I have all along but yet some here call me an idiot.. Everyone always denys and kicks a guy who is smarter then them.
 
ncoloradojazz said:
Funny that now jazz fans are seeing Hayward as I have all along but yet some here call me an idiot.. Everyone always denys and kicks a guy who is smarter then them.
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Damn! All of us? Individually or put together?
 
Funny that now jazz fans are seeing Hayward as I have all along but yet some here call me an idiot.. Everyone always denys and kicks a guy who is smarter then them.
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Yep...nailed it. That's precisely why people think you're an idiot.
 
Stoked said:
Lindsey just said that Favor agents first question during negotiations want about money. He asked if the Jazz would be able to keep the young core intact. That's a sign of good chemistry amoung the Core.

Also possibly a sign that Hayward stays long term.
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*weren't

(just trying to clarify for those who may have been confused)
 
Nice that Favors asked about keeping the team together but did it result in him taking less money. Many times athletes talk about keeping a winning team together but when it comes down to it players want to get paid. Example James Harden. There is no way the Jazz will be able to pay all their rookies so they need to be smart. Giving Hayward a Max (near) could result in the Jazz having to let go a player like Kanter. Besides people forget that the Jazz have two picks in this draft. Hayward is replaceable if the Jazz draft a Wiggins/Young/Parker/Exum etc..
 
cowhide said:
Nice that Favors asked about keeping the team together but did it result in him taking less money. Many times athletes talk about keeping a winning team together but when it comes down to it players want to get paid. Example James Harden. There is no way the Jazz will be able to pay all their rookies so they need to be smart. Giving Hayward a Max (near) could result in the Jazz having to let go a player like Kanter. Besides people forget that the Jazz have two picks in this draft. Hayward is replaceable if the Jazz draft a Wiggins/Young/Parker/Exum etc..
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Jazz know what they have (and don't have) with Hayward. Known Quantity.

Wiggins does not impress me as someone who would stay in Utah...

Would he have chemistry with the team? ..

Tough decision for Jazz in the next 2 days.

I do feel if a deal is not done b4 the season Hayward will be gone either via trade or an RFA we do not want to match.

Just business.
 
udflyer said:
Jazz know what they have (and don't have) with Hayward. Known Quantity.

Wiggins does not impress me as someone who would stay in Utah...

Would he have chemistry with the team? ..

Tough decision for Jazz in the next 2 days.

I do feel if a deal is not done b4 the season Hayward will be gone either via trade or an RFA we do not want to match.

Just business.
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If drafted the Jazz would at a minimum have control of Wiggins for 5 years and likely 7-8 years. That is a long time in basketball terms.

There is still a significant chance the Jazz will match any Hayward deal. Sometimes just publically claiming that is enough to scare other teams off.

This team has so much uncertainity it might be valuable to know Hayward and Favors are going to be starters in the long term.
 
cowhide said:
Nice that Favors asked about keeping the team together but did it result in him taking less money. Many times athletes talk about keeping a winning team together but when it comes down to it players want to get paid. Example James Harden. There is no way the Jazz will be able to pay all their rookies so they need to be smart. Giving Hayward a Max (near) could result in the Jazz having to let go a player like Kanter. Besides people forget that the Jazz have two picks in this draft. Hayward is replaceable if the Jazz draft a Wiggins/Young/Parker/Exum etc..
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It's practically on nobody's mind!
 
cowhide said:
Nice that Favors asked about keeping the team together but did it result in him taking less money. Many times athletes talk about keeping a winning team together but when it comes down to it players want to get paid. Example James Harden. There is no way the Jazz will be able to pay all their rookies so they need to be smart. Giving Hayward a Max (near) could result in the Jazz having to let go a player like Kanter. Besides people forget that the Jazz have two picks in this draft. Hayward is replaceable if the Jazz draft a Wiggins/Young/Parker/Exum etc..
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I hate this line of thinking and people throwing Harden under the bus because he wanted his money. Durrant got the max. So did Westbrook. Why is it that Harden has to sacrifice his money? Heck, take Durrant and Westbrook out of the equation. The Thunder are making money hand over fist. They could EASILY afford to keep Harden, Durrant, Westbrook and Ibaka. They could have afforded the penalties for 2-3 years with all the cash they have made. They are the ones that decided to not pay Harden. They are the ones that decided that they would rather make a ton of money and lose in the WCF's than almost guarantee a title.

It's a different world than it was in the Stockton/Malone days. Small market teams can dominate the airwaves, be on kids backs in big cities, and have Sprite commercials (see SA, OKC, Miami). That also means small market teams can make big money and can afford to go over the luxury tax line every now and again (heck, even the Jazz have done so).
 
I realized that the Jazz are going to max out Hayward this morning. Why? Because we are building a team that could have a shot at a title, if not for an overpaid, white player. We have to have that guy. First, it was Ostertag. Then AK. Both of those guy's contracts kept us from getting that last piece to win it all. Now it will be Hayward. Beloved before the big deal, hated after the big deal. But most importantly, white.
 
green said:
I realized that the Jazz are going to max out Hayward this morning. Why? Because we are building a team that could have a shot at a title, if not for an overpaid, white player. We have to have that guy. First, it was Ostertag. Then AK. Both of those guy's contracts kept us from getting that last piece to win it all. Now it will be Hayward. Beloved before the big deal, hated after the big deal. But most importantly, white.
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I would be totally fine with Hayward getting a max contract.











If he puts up 18 points, 7 assists, and 6 rebounds with 50% shooting this season.
 
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