Looking for genuine discourse re: Donald Sterling/NBA

[sirkickyass]

Why that will color their p.o.v. does it make it any less debatable? Does it mean it isn't an issue?

Lets just say that it was a perspective dripping in commentary on another culture of which the writer is not a member. If you look it up it appears the person is also very very conservative (shocker!). Bald assertions that people who produce black-culture-affiliated music are more harmful than David Sterling and are responsible for high mortality and imprisonment rates among african amercians are dripping in non-productive and irrelevant discourse. If anyone really thinks the release of The Chronic and Doggystyle is the reason for high incarceration rates among black men then they are dangerously ill-informed.

Given that he's going after a quote that's significantly more related to misogyny than racism and tenuously trying to hook it in, I think it's pretty clear that this is an axe that he's grinding, and one from a very non-minority perspective

 

[DutchJazzer]

Personaly I think that is part of the correct solution for the education problem. It certainly wont fix it on its own but it will contribute to the solution. But we need true school choice. Where it is not only open to certain people based on certain paramaters. Open it up to all and first come first serve. Then we need to focus on those schools that are performing the worst.

In that vein of discussion I think that the requirements, and as a result the pay, to be a teacher should be dramtically increased. I also think that tenure should be merit based and chosen by a council that includes teachers. That bad teachers, as decided by that same council, should be easier to fire.

i think teachers should earn more then doctors. because they are more important to society

 

[Stoked]

Lets just say that it was a perspective dripping in commentary on another culture of which the writer is not a member. If you look it up it appears the person is also very very conservative (shocker!). Bald assertions that people who produce black-culture-affiliated music are more harmful than David Sterling and are responsible for high mortality and imprisonment rates among african amercians are dripping in non-productive and irrelevant discourse. If anyone really thinks the release of The Chronic and Doggystyle is the reason for high incarceration rates among black men then they are dangerously ill-informed.

Given that he's going after a quote that's significantly more related to misogyny than racism and tenuously trying to hook it in, I think it's pretty clear that this is an axe that he's grinding, and one from a very non-minority perspective

Is it "the reason"? No. But there is a popular romanticising, if you will, of the gangster lifestlye amoung the entertainment industry that is directed at black Americans. Of course that has an effect. Especially when, at least from what I see, it is over whelming in abundance.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Unless you have a very very broad definition of "comparable" here I don't think you'll find many board members that agree that this level of private dehumanization is commonly accepted in their private lives.

comparable as in i sai some homophbic things.

i also come from a multicultural country, and ofcourse sometimes people of race/group a said/says something in anger. lie yeah what you expect they beolng to that race/religion. or like you can be friends hang out with them, but watch out they might backstab you its in their nature. or dont oucnt on them etc.

mostly people say the wrong stuff when in anger.
sometimes to protect their children.

so "comparable" yes.
but do you think homophobia is comparable to racism(discrimination against culture/religion). thats why i said comparable. because in all honesty i have not listened to a single word of sterlings convo and never will. i grant the man his privacy

 

[sirkickyass]

Is it "the reason"? No. But there is a popular romanticising, if you will, of the gangster lifestlye amoung the entertainment industry that is directed at black Americans. Of course that has an effect. Especially when, at least from what I see, it is over whelming in abundance.

The entire point of bringing up hip-hop in this context is to create some equivalence between Sterling's very real sentiments in which he expresses ownership and superiority over people to hip-hop songs.

Lets be clear here. Hip-hop, and especially hip-hop that could be characterized as "thug promotion" is, by and large, a cartoon. And intentionally so. The same guy who used to rap about how authentically "thug" he was that his (probably) most famous song was called "**** the Police" and could be heard claiming that his songs were "not about a salary, it's all about reality" has evolved into this guy:

He's family friendly; he does Coors commercials. He's practically a teddy bear. That is the face of N.W.A., and I'm sure you don't have to look up what that particular acronym stood for. At the end of the day, there's very little difference between the described hip-hop performance that supposedly contributes to negative african american culture and Johnny Cash constantly appearing as an outlaw while never serving a day of time. Somehow I don't think Johnny Cash had any real effect on criminality in the culture.

Bottom line: There is no equivalence between hip-hop in general and Donald Sterling specifically. Attempts to draw the parallel are beyond ignorant and apologetic for Sterling's racism by nature.

 

[Stoked]

The entire point of bringing up hip-hop in this context is to create some equivalence between Sterling's very real sentiments in which he expresses ownership and superiority over people to hip-hop songs.

Lets be clear here. Hip-hop, and especially hip-hop that could be characterized as "thug promotion" is, by and large, a cartoon. And intentionally so. The same guy who used to rap about how authentically "thug" he was that his (probably) most famous song was called "**** the Police" and could be heard claiming that his songs were "not about a salary, it's all about reality" has evolved into this guy:

He's family friendly; he does Coors commercials. He's practically a teddy bear. That is the face of N.W.A., and I'm sure you don't have to look up what that particular acronym stood for. At the end of the day, there's very little difference between the described hip-hop performance that supposedly contributes to negative african american culture and Johnny Cash constantly appearing as an outlaw while never serving a day of time. Somehow I don't think Johnny Cash had any real effect on criminality in the culture.

Bottom line: There is no equivalence between hip-hop in general and Donald Sterling specifically. Attempts to draw the parallel are beyond ignorant and apologetic for Sterling's racism by nature.

Good for him. He moved on. But using one man as an example is hardly overwhelming. Will Smith could be another example or Denzel Washington. They are out there but go listen to the grassroots rap and hip hop music that is out there and tell me what you hear. I'm not saying it is the reason for all of it but it certainly does not help.

I am not agruing why it was brought up. Just commenting on it now that the subject is here.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I still think ice cube stands behind f the police.

just he makes family movies for MONEY!

 

[DutchJazzer]

also another example from way before ice cube


is ICE T.

he made songs like pimpin aint ,
easy he is married to a porn star.

yet plays a svu detective for 14 years on law and order svu

 

[GVC]

also another example from way before ice cube


is ICE T.

he made songs like pimpin aint ,
easy he is married to a porn star.

yet plays a svu detective for 14 years on law and order svu

and?

The NBA took action against Donald Sterling. SVU decided to hire Ice T. These are unrelated decisions by different entities.

 

[DutchJazzer]

and?

The NBA took action against Donald Sterling. SVU decided to hire Ice T. These are unrelated decisions by different entities.

it was a reaction on the ice cube post ,.
not on the sterling thingy.
this thread is veering a bit away from sterling

 

[framer]

Don't like the idea of uniforms. The kids should have some leeway for expression
Homework is fine.
Like that the bad teachers wash out and that they are expanding the # of schools
I see the point of requiring the parents to drive them but that is not always possible.

As for your lottery comments. That consigns a section of kids to a poorer education already. Even by buyilding a school in a poor area some of the requirements will automatically exclude some of the kids. Such as bringing the kids to school and the cost of uniforms. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. A lottery at least mixes it up.

The uniforms are pretty variable, it just has to be a red white or blue knit shirt with blue jeans or khakis. Reasonable length shorts or skirts are OK too. The uniform requirement has actually saved me money in buying school clothes, which was probably some of the point. They do have dress down days a couple of times a month.

The workload is such that they want you to be at least a grade ahead on your learning level. If you are in 3rd grade they want you at a 4th grade level at the end of the year. If you are behind, the entire school is all being instructed on the same subject at the same time so a student can step down for a bit if the challenge is too great until they get a handle on what they are doing. Spanish is going to be mandatory, and they teach phonics and handwriting with poetry memorization readings once a quarter.

The thing is that almost none of this could happen at the public school level because of the pushback it would receive. That's fine but parents with a different vision have a chance to do something different. Ultimately, if we are going to compete as a nation, reforms have to happen, and they will happen faster at the charter level. Faster is better when it comes to upgrading educational opportunities for children.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Again, I'm not defending Sterling in any way whatsoever - he's a deplorable dreg who I couldn't care less about - but it is rich that Magic Johnson just tweeted celebrating D'Antoni's resignation. The guy who the media blow-hards/mob public who cried, "how can you hate Magic, 'one of the all-time great people' in the league,'" on their way to his defense, reveals a really dark and morally reprehensible side of his character 24 hours after Sterling is banished. You can't make this **** up! I'm no tin foil hat man, but people need to wake up.

Maybe Johnson needs to apologize to all Italians.

 

[Stifle Tower]

And yet there are teachers that are pissed off because they have to work for and with incompetents. My kids go to a charter school, no teachers union, no fancy tenure issues, bad teachers wash out, good ones are happy, and the school is very high performing. Enrollment just maxed out, so instead of instituting a lottery, they are just going to build two more just like it, one of them in the poorest section of town. Arizona lets us earmark a portion of our own state tax bill to help out with stuff like this. They have to wear uniforms, discipline is very strict and in most cases taken off the plate of teachers, which is a benefit to them. There are no buses so parents have to commit to getting their kids to school and one to two hours of homework a night is required.
And the best part is they do this without the by-your-leave of people who want to put a myriad of restrictions on what choice you can make. See the stupid thing about lotteries is that you are consigning the kids that lose to a crap education and possibly a poor outcome in life. The answer is to put the power of choice into the hands of the parents, even if that means crowding out public schools and teachers unions. Reward financially schools that get it right and give them the incentive to expand. And yes this will involve some people giving up the control that they have become accustomed to .

We're moving my daughter to a charter school this fall. Tried to get in last year, but didn't get a spot via the lottery. Like your situation, this school has proven so popular they are opening up another campus. I'm not sure what can be done outside of a lottery when demand outstrips supply. In our case, the lottery "losers" were added to the waiting list and that has been resolved by adding a new location. Charter schools are a great option, but they're VERY hard to start up as a school district has to sponsor them (and keep renewing their charter). And therein lies the problem: what school district wants a competitor in their midst that siphons state and federal funds away from them?

Personally, I like the idea of uniforms. Kids can be cruel to others if they don't have the popular labels on their clothes. I definitely love taking power away from the teachers unions. In CA they exist solely for the purpose of keeping incompetent and sometimes criminal teachers in their jobs. It's damn near impossible to get a teacher fired in the LAUSD. Even if a teacher is clearly incompetent, negligible, etc., it takes YEARS before any action can be brought against them. In the meantime, they're getting full salary and benefits while they vacation away and let the union keep them employed.

In our case, the school my daughter attends is actually one of the better ones. But for a variety of reasons, we're making the leap. One is to get her into the charter Jr. High when it's time. The one she'd feed in to is has some serious problems. And two is the common core nonsense. It's a topic for another thread, but you cannot BELIEVE what crap my daughter is being forced to listen to and agree with. It's not only a "one method fits all" system, it's indoctrination that would inspire Orwell to pen another novel. There will still be a common core element in the charter school, but nothing like what she is getting now.

 

[HighlandHomie]

I'm confused on why celebrating the resignation of D'Antoni reveals a really dark and morally reprehensible side of his character. Could you explain that further, please?

He basically spit on D'Antoni publicly on Twitter (has over 2,000,000 followers) mere minutes after the news of D'Antoni's 'resignation' was reported. He was effectively fired. Even if you say D'Antoni chose to quit - it's still a situation another working-aged human can relate to. Whether Magic's differences with D'Antoni stem from something behind closed doors (never to be made public) or because the Lakers had poor showings during his brief tenure, the timing and content of his message not only lacked tact and grace but was a true sign of Magic's ugly vindictiveness inside of him. It is utterly insensitive, and petty.

Minutes after D'Antoni was reported to be unemployed, Magic said, "Happy days are here again! Mike D'Antoni resigns as the Lakers coach. I couldn't be happier!"

He infers his days were unhappy while D'Antoni was coach, and the fact D'Antoni is no longer is the coach delivered him to bliss. Obviously, I don't truly believe D'Antoni's status with the Lakers truly impacted Magic in that way - but the act of embellishment by Magic is driven by hate.

That reveals a deep-rooted hatred inside him for another person based on what I'm assuming is something petty. I'd imagine we'd have heard about any racial/criminal dust-up between the two, which could cause someone to possess that type of contempt for another human to use a platform where you reach millions of people to celebrate their loss of a job.

I get worked up with the latest news being a major story because the public is focused on the surface issue (Sterling), which for all intensive purposes is totally meaningless in the big picture.

If one owner of an NBA team mistreats an employee because of their race, another mistreats their employee because of their religion, another mistreats their employee because of their sexuality and another mistreats their employee because they've grown to disagree about how they coach a game of basketball - what's the ****ing difference? Sterling actually wasn't caught "mistreating" any of his employees (again, I must reiterate I am not defending him nor think he shouldn't have been removed).

The essence of my feelings are that a hateful person shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of power (in any arena of life). What type of form that hate comes in (bigotry, vindictiveness, spite, etc.) is irrelevant.

It seems hypocritical to condemn one person, but celebrate another who is equally hateful yet not in the simple form of racism.

I hope that helps clear some of that up.

 

[Stoked]

He basically spit on D'Antoni publicly on Twitter (has over 2,000,000 followers) mere minutes after the news of D'Antoni's 'resignation' was reported. He was effectively fired. Even if you say D'Antoni chose to quit - it's still a situation another working-aged human can relate to. Whether Magic's differences with D'Antoni stem from something behind closed doors (never to be made public) or because the Lakers had poor showings during his brief tenure, the timing and content of his message not only lacked tact and grace but was a true sign of Magic's ugly vindictiveness inside of him. It is utterly insensitive, and petty.

Minutes after D'Antoni was reported to be unemployed, Magic said, "Happy days are here again! Mike D'Antoni resigns as the Lakers coach. I couldn't be happier!"

He infers his days were unhappy while D'Antoni was coach, and the fact D'Antoni is no longer is the coach delivered him to bliss. Obviously, I don't truly believe D'Antoni's status with the Lakers truly impacted Magic in that way - but the act of embellishment by Magic is driven by hate.

That reveals a deep-rooted hatred inside him for another person based on what I'm assuming is something petty. I'd imagine we'd have heard about any racial/criminal dust-up between the two, which could cause someone to possess that type of contempt for another human to use a platform where you reach millions of people to celebrate their loss of a job.

I get worked up with the latest news being a major story because the public is focused on the surface issue (Sterling), which for all intensive purposes is totally meaningless in the big picture.

If one owner of an NBA team mistreats an employee because of their race, another mistreats their employee because of their religion, another mistreats their employee because of their sexuality and another mistreats their employee because they've grown to disagree about how they coach a game of basketball - what's the ****ing difference? Sterling actually wasn't caught "mistreating" any of his employees (again, I must reiterate I am not defending him nor think he shouldn't have been removed).

The essence of my feelings are that a hateful person shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of power (in any arena of life). What type of form that hate comes in (bigotry, vindictiveness, spite, etc.) is irrelevant.

It seems hypocritical to condemn one person, but celebrate another who is equally hateful yet not in the simple form of racism.

I hope that helps clear some of that up.

Gasp!

So you assume. Maybe D'Antoni treated him like a pos. You have no earthly clue what the Magic/D'Antoni things is about.

Equating a personal squabble between two people based solely on one slightly douchy twitter post by Magic to the racist rambling of Sterling is foolish.

Mountain out of a molehill.

 

[LogGrad98]

Anyone who read much about the Lakers this year knew that D'Antoni and Magic were at odd. Magic's tweet was fully expected, surprised no one, and is really a non-story being blown out of proportion due to the Sterling thing, which itself has been blown all out of proportion by a media that feeds on sensationalism and panic.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Anyone who read much about the Lakers this year knew that D'Antoni and Magic were at odd. Magic's tweet was fully expected, surprised no one, and is really a non-story being blown out of proportion due to the Sterling thing, which itself has been blown all out of proportion by a media that feeds on sensationalism and panic.

Disagreed entirely that his tweet surprised no one. In fact, many prominent basketball people expressed suprise/disappointment. Whether they were just being self-righteous or not is up for debate. But I do agree the Sterling thing was blown out of proportion by the media, and consequently the sheep-like public , because of the surface talking points. My main point in my original post is that the owners of everything in this country being dicks isn't news.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I missed quite a few pages and don't care to read them all now.

Does this sum up what I missed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4_COOh4VXw

 

[franklin]

He's family friendly; he does Coors commercials. He's practically a teddy bear. That is the face of N.W.A., and I'm sure you don't have to look up what that particular acronym stood for. At the end of the day, there's very little difference between the described hip-hop performance that supposedly contributes to negative african american culture and Johnny Cash constantly appearing as an outlaw while never serving a day of time. Somehow I don't think Johnny Cash had any real effect on criminality in the culture.

I'm pretty sure a mixture of Joe Walsh singing about Maserati's, The Doors about drugs, and Country singers about drinking themselves into comas is the reason Pearl Watson has 13 illegitimate children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXWvKDSwvls

^Don't listen or you'll succumb to thug mentality. Or is it only bad when blackie sings about his money?

 

[HighlandHomie]

Equating a personal squabble between two people based solely on one slightly douchy twitter post by Magic to the racist rambling of Sterling is foolish.

Mountain out of a molehill.

I definitely did not equate the two in terms of saying tweeting about being happy a coach is gone is the same as telling your girlfriend you don't want her posing in pictures for the public to see with black or hispanic dudes. At least that certainly wasn't my intent.

I just wanted to illustrate the irony of the media/public's example of the gold standard of how an owner of an NBA team should be (Magic) PUBLICLY showing how big of a dirtbag he could be a day after another owner was banished for having his (what he though would be totally private) dirtbagginess recorded and released to the public.