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Following potential 2014 draftees

Lattimer said:
Video of Vonleh defense. Nothing about this kid wows me. It's to the point that I'll be very bummed if we take him.

Does he move any better than Kanter ffs? We'd be fools to draft him over Gordon.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir42vNaqbXY[/youtube]


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His defense looks pretty good to me, not spectacular, but good. PNR D was lazy at times, but he has the tools to do it.

The individual defense on Kaminsky in those videos was great. Drafting Vonleh would do a lot to taking the weakness out of our defense (Kanter) and would give us two legitimate rim protecting players. That is a pretty intriguing thing to have.

I think Vonleh's worst case is a non-tweener version of Marvin Williams (passive player prone to disappearing who never is able to put all the pieces together, but can hit shots and does most thing solidly). Interested to see how quickly his NBA range will come and how dangerous he can be from outside. I think everyone is expecting him to come in and be a 3pt shooter, but that may not be the case. Think that can actually hurt big men too, when they start shooting too many 3's (in efforts to prove they can) and aren't actually good at it.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
I'm not doubting Bosh's productivity. He was indeed very productive in Toronto. But you and I both know a player you need more than productivity to win in this league - otherwise the likes of Carmelo would have won multiple Championships.



You need the heart of a fighter - and unless your team has that you just won't win.
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I agree totally, that your team needs it.

To single out draftee's and use that one part of "intangibles" as an absolute factor is certainly not a method that will stand the test of time, so why its brought up constantly here, i cannot figure. I guess some just like to grasp at straws.

that part of 'intangibles' is not as important as 'instincts', to me at least. I say you can always add warriors to the roster, around guys, thats just how i feel. (See Patrick Beverly)

were talking about teenagers...

being concerned with their mentality is fine, but of all the things to try and draw concrete conclusions on, i'd say thats a tough one, these are kids, theyre not mature yet. Who's to say how the effect Money and Fame will have on them for the next 10 years of playing pro-ball. I mean sure we can speculate, but to qualify and rate or dismiss prospects based on their 'hungry' is ridiculous.

I hate to say it but look at Jayson Williams, **** happens, you dont have to be an idiot for **** to go wrong, all it takes is 1 slip up, sometimes.

Aaron Hernandez signed a 4 year 50 million dollar extension with the patriots, 2 weeks after he murdered 2 people. Im sure they were talking about what a great ****ing guy he was the day of the deal too.

Javaris Crittenton was drafted in the 1st round, hes a Crip. these are obviously worst case scenario's but no one saw these stories coming.

Ive heard Bill Walton speak very highly of Gilbert Arenas' at Arizona, then he says "that was before he lost his mind"

Michael Beasley was incredibly nasty/hungry/ whatever you want to call it at KSU. He took a Randy Marsh sized **** on the McDonald's game too.

On 'being hungry', Im not about to give Dario Saric 1,000 brownie points because hes scowling throughout the game, barking at the refs, and looks as if he REALLY wants to win, sorry. **** that logic.

There was a rumor that the Cavs' may have reached out to Wiggins camp and indicated hes the pick. Did you see A. Wiggins interview in the locker room after that humiliating Stanford loss??? dejected isnt a strong enough word, he could barely speak above a whisper. but still The Sixers apparently want to trade 3 and 10 for him.

my point is too much is being made of "killer instinct" - thats a term id use for the Larry Bird's, Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant's, its not near the list of my top concerns when looking at draft picks

I do believe you can develop some of the "Hunger" later in your career too, you see it from Vets counting their final seasons. You see it now from LeBron after years of being questioned.

Alex Rodriguez was basically one step away from being crucified in NY because of his lack of "clutch" or whatever you call it. Then he hit 6 homers and 18 rbi's batting .400 for the 2009 playoffs and carried the Yanks to a championship.

DeShawn Stevenson had plenty of talent and nasty to his game, no?

how about

DeJuan Wagner? He averaged 42.5 points per game SR year of highschool in New Jersey, when the Cavs took him 3rd do you think they thought he had some killer instinct to his game?

Now im well aware its Ideal that your teams best player, have tons of nasty to him, but to ignore skill and overdraft because of it, is flat out crazy. Thomas Robinson plays like the hungriest guy on the court, no?

I think realistically most teams only have a few of those mentality guys max, (on veteran playoff teams you can find a handful) you will always need a balanced combination of Big's and Guard's to win in the playoffs, Its not necessary that your top Guard and your top Big need to both have that sort of mentality, one of them should though.

I can think of a few teams who had tough hungry bigtime Guard and Big combinations, that didnt win ****.

If this were Chess where imposing your will is pivotal to victory, id be all about this type of nitpicking, this is a team game.
 
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PointGod_AlecBurks said:
I agree totally, that your team needs it.

To single out draftee's and use that one part of "intangibles" as an absolute factor is certainly not a method that will stand the test of time, so why its brought up constantly here, i cannot figure. I guess some just like to grasp at straws.

that part of 'intangibles' is not as important as 'instincts', to me at least. I say you can always add warriors to the roster, around guys, thats just how i feel. (See Patrick Beverly)

were talking about teenagers...

being concerned with their mentality is fine, but of all the things to try and draw concrete conclusions on, i'd say thats a tough one, these are kids, theyre not mature yet. Who's to say how the effect Money and Fame will have on them for the next 10 years of playing pro-ball. I mean sure we can speculate, but to qualify and rate or dismiss prospects based on their 'hungry' is ridiculous.

I hate to say it but look at Jayson Williams, **** happens. Aaron Hernandez signed a 4 year 50 million dollar extension with the patriots, 2 weeks after he murdered 2 people.

Javaris Crittenton was drafted in the 1st round, hes a Crip. these are obviously worst case scenario's but no one saw these stories coming.

Ive heard Bill Walton speak very highly of Gilbert Arenas' at Arizona, then he says "that was before he lost his mind"

Michael Beasley was incredibly nasty/hungry/ whatever you want to call it at KSU. He took a Stan Marsh sized **** on the McDonald's game too.

On 'being hungry', Im not about to give Dario Saric 1,000 brownie points because hes scowling throughout the game, barking at the refs, and looks as if he REALLY wants to win, sorry. **** that logic.

There was a rumor that the Cavs' may have reached out to Wiggins camp and indicated hes the pick. Did you see A. Wiggins interview in the locker room after that humiliating Stanford loss??? dejected isnt a strong enough word, he could barely speak above a whisper. but still The Sixers apparently want to trade 3 and 10 for him.

my point is too much is being made of "killer instinct" - thats a term id use for the Larry Bird's, Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant's, its not near the list of my top concerns when looking at draft picks

I do believe you can develop some of the "Hunger" later in your career too, you see it from Vets counting their final seasons. You see it now from LeBron after years of being questioned.

Alex Rodriguez was basically one step away from being crucified in NY because of his lack of "clutch" or whatever you call it. Then he hit 6 homers and 18 rbi's batting .400 for the 2009 playoffs and carried the Yanks to a championship.

DeShawn Stevenson had plenty of talent and nasty to his game, no?

how about

DeJuan Wagner? He averaged 42.5 points per game SR year of highschool in New Jersey, when the Cavs took him 3rd do you think they thought he had some killer instinct to his game?

Now im well aware its Ideal that your teams best player, have tons of nasty to him, but to ignore skill and overdraft because of it, is flat out crazy. Thomas Robinson plays like the hungriest guy on the court, no?

I think realistically most teams only have a few of those mentality guys max, (on veteran playoff teams you can find a handful) you will always need a balanced combination of Big's and Guard's to win in the playoffs, Its not necessary that your top Guard and your top Big need to both have that sort of mentality, one of them should though.

I can think of a few teams who had tough hungry bigtime Guard and Big combinations, that didnt win ****.

If this were Chess where imposing your will is pivotal to victory, id be all about this type of nitpicking, this is a team game.
Click to expand...

Tell me more.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
I agree totally, that your team needs it.

To single out draftee's and use that one part of "intangibles" as an absolute factor is certainly not a method that will stand the test of time, so why its brought up constantly here, i cannot figure. I guess some just like to grasp at straws.

that part of 'intangibles' is not as important as 'instincts', to me at least. I say you can always add warriors to the roster, around guys, thats just how i feel. (See Patrick Beverly)

were talking about teenagers...

being concerned with their mentality is fine, but of all the things to try and draw concrete conclusions on, i'd say thats a tough one, these are kids, theyre not mature yet. Who's to say how the effect Money and Fame will have on them for the next 10 years of playing pro-ball. I mean sure we can speculate, but to qualify and rate or dismiss prospects based on their 'hungry' is ridiculous.

I hate to say it but look at Jayson Williams, **** happens, you dont have to be an idiot for **** to go wrong, all it takes is 1 slip up, sometimes.

Aaron Hernandez signed a 4 year 50 million dollar extension with the patriots, 2 weeks after he murdered 2 people. Im sure they were talking about what a great ****ing guy he was the day of the deal too.

Javaris Crittenton was drafted in the 1st round, hes a Crip. these are obviously worst case scenario's but no one saw these stories coming.

Ive heard Bill Walton speak very highly of Gilbert Arenas' at Arizona, then he says "that was before he lost his mind"

Michael Beasley was incredibly nasty/hungry/ whatever you want to call it at KSU. He took a Randy Marsh sized **** on the McDonald's game too.

On 'being hungry', Im not about to give Dario Saric 1,000 brownie points because hes scowling throughout the game, barking at the refs, and looks as if he REALLY wants to win, sorry. **** that logic.

There was a rumor that the Cavs' may have reached out to Wiggins camp and indicated hes the pick. Did you see A. Wiggins interview in the locker room after that humiliating Stanford loss??? dejected isnt a strong enough word, he could barely speak above a whisper. but still The Sixers apparently want to trade 3 and 10 for him.

my point is too much is being made of "killer instinct" - thats a term id use for the Larry Bird's, Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant's, its not near the list of my top concerns when looking at draft picks

I do believe you can develop some of the "Hunger" later in your career too, you see it from Vets counting their final seasons. You see it now from LeBron after years of being questioned.

Alex Rodriguez was basically one step away from being crucified in NY because of his lack of "clutch" or whatever you call it. Then he hit 6 homers and 18 rbi's batting .400 for the 2009 playoffs and carried the Yanks to a championship.

DeShawn Stevenson had plenty of talent and nasty to his game, no?

how about

DeJuan Wagner? He averaged 42.5 points per game SR year of highschool in New Jersey, when the Cavs took him 3rd do you think they thought he had some killer instinct to his game?

Now im well aware its Ideal that your teams best player, have tons of nasty to him, but to ignore skill and overdraft because of it, is flat out crazy. Thomas Robinson plays like the hungriest guy on the court, no?

I think realistically most teams only have a few of those mentality guys max, (on veteran playoff teams you can find a handful) you will always need a balanced combination of Big's and Guard's to win in the playoffs, Its not necessary that your top Guard and your top Big need to both have that sort of mentality, one of them should though.

I can think of a few teams who had tough hungry bigtime Guard and Big combinations, that didnt win ****.

If this were Chess where imposing your will is pivotal to victory, id be all about this type of nitpicking, this is a team game.
Click to expand...

Dennis Lindsey talks about being 'hungry' numerous times now in interviews and the likes, most recently about Quinn Snyder following the HC hire.



So, yeah, if u don't like the term then you're not gonna like the team Lindsey's about to put together.
 
LOL @ Beaseley being incredibly 'hungry' - wasn't he bounced around 5 different highschools before he was drafted??


I guess the canteens just weren't very good.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
LOL @ Beaseley being incredibly 'hungry' - wasn't he bounced around 5 different highschools before he was drafted??


I guess the canteens just weren't very good.
Click to expand...

Your preference is to talk from the position that no one can tell you anything about the subject of "hungry", because you preside over the word much like a child with an imaginary friend.
 
Dunno what's happening here but LOL if someone is really trying to say Beasley is hungry, unless they are literally talking about food.


£¥£
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
You have your own special definition of 'hungry' that you will not explain properly. If you did explain it, gaping holes would be easily poked into your logic.

So your preference is to talk from the position that no one can tell you anything about the subject of "hungry", because you preside over the word much like a child with an imaginary friend.
Click to expand...

Bro, if you think everything about this business of player evaluation is statistics and physics, 1+1=2, then the best statisticians and the best physicians would be hired instead of the likes of Dennis Lindsey and Walt Perrin.
 
UGLI baby said:
Dunno what's happening here but LOL if someone is really trying to say Beasley is hungry, unless they are literally talking about food.


£¥£
Click to expand...

At KSU Michael Beasley wasnt hungry?

Do you guys smoke crack? this seems like borderline junkie type-of logic to me.

the guy grabbed 12.4 rebounds per game. 3rd in the nation in scoring as a freshman, 26.2ppg

Did he coast to those #'s?

I demand an explanation. Michael Beasley at KSU was a ****ing monster, wtf do you have to say bad about his college season?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
LOL @ anyone who thinks "hunger" is to do with compilation of statistical numbers...



Case in point: Carlos Boozer.
Click to expand...

Your preference is to talk from the position that no one can tell you anything about the subject of "hungry", because you preside over the word much like a child with an imaginary friend.

(got it?)

you call people out for explanations but wont offer an explanation of your own, like a child.

Who was the hungriest player on the court in the 2007 McDonalds All American Game.

When Beasley dropped 32 and 24 in his first college game. who was the hungriest player on the court?

How about in his second game in college where he dropped 30 and 14, was he not the hungriest player on the court?

how about his 3rd game of college, where he dropped 28 and 22, Obviously Michael Beasley wasnt hungry that game
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Your preference is to talk from the position that no one can tell you anything about the subject of "hungry", because you preside over the word much like a child with an imaginary friend.

(got it?)

you call people out for explanations but wont offer an explanation of your own, like a child.

Who was the hungriest player on the court in the 2007 McDonalds All American Game.

When Beasley dropped 32 and 24 in his first college game. who was the hungriest player on the court?

How about in his second game in college where he dropped 30 and 14, was he not the hungriest player on the court?

how about his 3rd game of college, where he dropped 28 and 22, Obviously Michael Beasley wasnt hungry that game
Click to expand...

My point is you cannot always determine someone's level of hunger by what they produce on court - may be your opponents were inferior, may be you're more advanced for your age group, may be you're more prepared than them that day, etc, etc, etc.


In the case of Carlos Boozer, it was always about 'himself' never about the team. All Carlos cared about was Carlos Inc.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
My point is you cannot always determine someone's level of hunger by what they produce on court - it is inherent in you.



Also unless you yourself has been 'hungry' before in your life, you just won't know what it means.
Click to expand...

Define hunger as you see how it applies to appraising draft picks.

then ill take those qualifications, and find players that you wont like, that fit the bill.

Guaranteed.
 
**** man, I do believe most people know what I'm talking about when I say "hunger" except may be PG_AB


I'm talking about the "hunger" to win a Championship (or trophy or whatever in your respective fields). You do everything you physically can to try and get your team over the line. What Randle did during the tourney - being that vocal and inspirational leader, etc, etc, etc. Ginobili taking a lesser role in coming off the bench and yet being able to make an impact and affect the game, etc, etc, etc.


It is NOT about compiling individual points or rebounds, it is not about being Carlos Boozer or Carmelo Anthony playing hero ball.
 
im sure you could name plenty of HOF'ers youd describe as hungry.

How many 'hungry' players have ever turned into a bust?

0 ?

if no players who are 'hungry' have been busts why do you feel its a realistic indicator?

is 'hungry' infallible in your mind? when can 'hungry' go wrong?
 
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