Nitwits like you should shut the **** up as a rule.
Letting Paul Millsap leave killed the Utah Jazz
- Thread starter Yell42
- Start date
Nitwits like you should shut the **** up as a rule.
J
JAZZGASM
Guest
This is crazy. Yes, Millsap has done well in ATL, but I don't think he would have had the same success for the Jazz in the much deeper West. If we had kept him, what draft picks would we have lost out on? What would our roster be comprised of? The Jazz realized that the AJ/Millsap front court wasn't going to do it. They took a gamble on Favors and Kanter as the future, and hopefully they are patient enough to see it through. It is crazy how fickle fans on this site can be. I have seen Kanter carry this team on a lot of possessions. He is our one big that can create for himself consistently on the post. A very valuable resource to have on a team, especially since Gobert is somewhat limited on offense at this point, and Hayward is the only other consistent high % creator we have with Burks injured.
I think our current front court could be something really special. In fact, I think it already is, they just need a better back court to support them and time to jell. Also, Snyder needs to make spacing adjustments due to Gobert's presence in the post. Weak side players do not need to sag nearly as much when Gobert is in the game (but it still happens, and we give up a ton of weak side open threes).
Exum has the tools to be special, we are already seeing it on defense. He needs confidence, and he is slowly building it. But he hasn't developed enough to push this team over the hump. And I don't think Burke ever will. Lets shore up our back court and watch this team turn into something special.
I would take our front court of Gobert, Favors and Kanter over AJ/Millsap/etc. any day of the week.
I think our current front court could be something really special. In fact, I think it already is, they just need a better back court to support them and time to jell. Also, Snyder needs to make spacing adjustments due to Gobert's presence in the post. Weak side players do not need to sag nearly as much when Gobert is in the game (but it still happens, and we give up a ton of weak side open threes).
Exum has the tools to be special, we are already seeing it on defense. He needs confidence, and he is slowly building it. But he hasn't developed enough to push this team over the hump. And I don't think Burke ever will. Lets shore up our back court and watch this team turn into something special.
I would take our front court of Gobert, Favors and Kanter over AJ/Millsap/etc. any day of the week.
Remember when Boozer went down and Millsap had that crazy double-double streak and was getting buzz as an all-star? That good (and he got SO MUCH BETTER).
NAOS
Well-Known Member
it's funny when you confidently declare yourself as belonging amongst the intelligent crowd.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Trading Deron away was a good decision. As soon as they traded him they should have bailed. That's when it was no longer a retool and it was a rebuild.
I'll accept the argument they had to take on a chance on Jefferson (I wouldn't have), but not trading him I can't accept as an argument.
Jefferson' s tenure here was a distaster. I don't care what numbers he put up. I couldn't stand watching him play.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
If I were GM of the Jazz, the Jefferson deal would have never happened. Jerry Sloan never would have retired. Because I would traded Boozer and Memo for a real defensive center to put next to Millsap. That person was most likely going to be Kevin Garnett and we would have won a couple championships. I was campaigning for a Kevin Garnett deal back then. The salaries matched up perfectly. Memo was at about 8 or 9 mil per, Boozer was 12, Garnett was at 20. We could have thrown in a pick or two to sweeten the deal. Boozer and Memo had high value then and Minnesota would have taken the deal.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
I like Sap as much as anyone else, but I never had any doubts about whether or not he was coming back. There were some hard feelings with his last contract, and Utah was regressing as a team. The chances of him coming back then were about as good as him leaving his current situation to come back the bench in Utah, IMO.
I understand why they went after Jefferson (thanks AK and Memo [the same reason they let Matthews walk and got Bell]), but keeping him and then letting him walk for nothing was a complete waste of time.
You understand that he was stating (or at least clearly inferring) that:
1) The Jazz didn't want Millsap because he was something of a cancer (not because they were rebuilding)
2) Millsap would've wanted to stay in a situation where no matter what good he did, the fans of his own team just wanted to see him benched behind inferior players and play for a fraction of what someone of his caliber should be paid. Only, again, the Jazz didn't and shouldn't value a player that showed poor character (or something?).
For the record. I don't really agree with the OP because he's always the worst. But, yeah, if Exum doesn't turn into a real serious player (or whoever they get next year if they stay on pace) then this calculated decision to let Millsap walk (I don't believe the relationship was beyond repair and that he would've at least listened) was absolutely a mistake.
KG is a defensive C?
Mmkay
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
KG was great at defense = True
KG could have played Center for us next to Millsap = True.
Are you saying KG wouldn't have been an upgrade over Memo at the center position? We had Memo as our center. Why not KG?
framer
Well-Known Member
Few things.
1. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with out front court. Our front court will likely be better than Atlanta's with Millsap next year, and they are all 24 or under (minus, Booker I believe.) We have the financial capability to keep them together for a while because even though we are starting to bump against the salary cap, the luxury tax is a long time away. People complaining about our front line situation are daft. Our backcourt needs work, however. Was Paul Millsap going to play shooting guard?
2. No one knows what was on the table for Millsap or Big Al. I got the feeling that trades could have been made but they required us taking back multi-year contracts or packaging some of our young talent. We weren't going to do that. That was the right decision as we got the draft picks and the expirings we wanted in the offseason with our cap room. Jazz have played the finical aspect of the rebuild like a Stradivarius, even though some of it may appear to be luck (like Hayward earning his contract.)
3. The Jazz have made some stupendously good moves, like trading Deron and purchasing the pick for Gobert. They also have a passel full of picks that can be used as assets, as adding even MORE young talent at this point may not be what we need to do.
4. If you go back in time and change one thing, not everything else but that thing pans out the same. We wouldn't have our current team + Milsap, for instance. It is likely we never purchase the pick for an extra big man at that point so the freakin' Lakers get Gobert. So you got two good PF's and Kanter trying to hold down the center position. You could have moved Millsap to SF, but then we likely don't match Hayward. Sometimes people complain just to complain. There is nothing wrong with our current situation.
1. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with out front court. Our front court will likely be better than Atlanta's with Millsap next year, and they are all 24 or under (minus, Booker I believe.) We have the financial capability to keep them together for a while because even though we are starting to bump against the salary cap, the luxury tax is a long time away. People complaining about our front line situation are daft. Our backcourt needs work, however. Was Paul Millsap going to play shooting guard?
2. No one knows what was on the table for Millsap or Big Al. I got the feeling that trades could have been made but they required us taking back multi-year contracts or packaging some of our young talent. We weren't going to do that. That was the right decision as we got the draft picks and the expirings we wanted in the offseason with our cap room. Jazz have played the finical aspect of the rebuild like a Stradivarius, even though some of it may appear to be luck (like Hayward earning his contract.)
3. The Jazz have made some stupendously good moves, like trading Deron and purchasing the pick for Gobert. They also have a passel full of picks that can be used as assets, as adding even MORE young talent at this point may not be what we need to do.
4. If you go back in time and change one thing, not everything else but that thing pans out the same. We wouldn't have our current team + Milsap, for instance. It is likely we never purchase the pick for an extra big man at that point so the freakin' Lakers get Gobert. So you got two good PF's and Kanter trying to hold down the center position. You could have moved Millsap to SF, but then we likely don't match Hayward. Sometimes people complain just to complain. There is nothing wrong with our current situation.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Hotttdumppp thinks KG can play SF, Hack thinks he could have played C. Confusion.
Totally, though, guis, this totally would have been possible and it totally would have worked. They would have slaughtered Bynum and Gasol and the jazz would have won championships until Jerry bravely stepped into the grave.
Totally, though, guis, this totally would have been possible and it totally would have worked. They would have slaughtered Bynum and Gasol and the jazz would have won championships until Jerry bravely stepped into the grave.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
What calculated decision? He was an unrestricted player for the first time in his career who had hard feelings about his last contract, enough that his camp made it clear they didn't want Utah to match. If Utah was in a winning situation then that probably trumps his past grudges, but Utah was a mediocre team in steady decline.
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Utah didn't plan to let valuable assets walk for nothing. Utah lost assets because they gambled on their ability to bring those players back. Their plan fell through and they were left with no other option but to rebuild. No doubt Utah screwed up, but the mistake was not getting value for those players while they could.
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Also, for those who want to say this is all hindsight, there are posters here who predicted the inevitable rebuild, which is why many of us wanted a full rebuild to maximize assets. Regardless, Utah is on the right path now, and this isn't predicated upon what happens with Exum. You either believe in doing things the right way or you don't. Without the youth movement, Rudy might be buried on the bench behind guys who are just good enough to keep the team in mediocrity.
framer
Well-Known Member
And Minnesota was going to Trade KG within the division? Teams don't generally do things like that. If you trade a star you almost ALWAYS trade them to the other conference. Also, if I remember right, KG had a no trade clause in his contract so he probably wasn't thinking that Millsap was his best chance at a championship. He went to Boston because he saw the pieces he liked there.
* Millsap is undersized and can't defend or rebound against athletic length.
* He hasn't been out of the first round in as long as I can remember, assuming he's even in the playoffs.
* Derrick Favors is a better 2-way player and has higher PER as our primary post scorer playing in the west.
* If the Jazz had Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroeder instead of Trey Burke, they'd be a completely different team.
* He hasn't been out of the first round in as long as I can remember, assuming he's even in the playoffs.
* Derrick Favors is a better 2-way player and has higher PER as our primary post scorer playing in the west.
* If the Jazz had Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroeder instead of Trey Burke, they'd be a completely different team.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
please don't poke holes in the Genius's perfections.
I think this is wildly overstated. It also ignores a bunch of variables, it also ignores that issues aren't static.
The Jazz and Millsap walked away from each other, but I don't think there were any serious hard feelings. Also, at the time that all that went down, the Hawks didn't look very good either and it's not as though Paul got some ridiculous check as a UFA either. Paul has been worth $12 million plus for 4.5 seasons now.