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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jokic is the best player, but SGA is having the best season.
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Disagree. Jokic averaging a triple double. By every objective measure jokic is far and away having a better season. Please post by what objective measure SGA is having a better season than near-30 ppg, 12 boards, 10 assists and 2 steals while carrying a far inferior squad to a top 4 record in the West? Best player and most valuable. Kind of the definition of the award.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The Thunder have won more games and there’s voter fatigue with Jokic. Those are the only arguments. Jokic has a better PER and +/-, and if he wasn’t on the Nuggets they’d be trash. The Thunder probably still make the playoffs without SGA, Jokic is the difference for the Nuggets between out of the playoffs and perennial dark horse contender at worst.
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This. In spades. Remove SGA and they are still a solid near-60 win team. Remove jokic and the nuggets are hoping to buck the odds in the late lottery.
 
OKC is having a historic season, and it is because of SGA. That, a long with being a high level defender while being the scoring leader, is why he's the MVP.

I don't think anyone is wrong for saying Jokic. I think it could go either way and I won't have a problem with either, but my vote would be AGA.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
They are not a 60 win team without SGA at all
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So what is the objective measure of how many wins they are worth for their respective teams? Completely subjectively I would award SGA with maybe 6-8 extra wins. Jokic on that team has to be worth more than a dozen, maybe 15. How do you quantify that? You really think without SGA they are lottery bound? But it is pretty clear that without Jokic the Nuggets would be lottery bound. But with him they are top 4 in the west. Pretty stark difference really.
 
LogGrad98 said:
So what is the objective measure of how many wins they are worth for their respective teams? Completely subjectively I would award SGA with maybe 6-8 extra wins. Jokic on that team has to be worth more than a dozen, maybe 15. How do you quantify that? You really think without SGA they are lottery bound? But it is pretty clear that without Jokic the Nuggets would be lottery bound. But with him they are top 4 in the west. Pretty stark difference really.
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SGA leads Jokic in win shares, 16.4 to 15.3. Jokic leads SGA in Value Above Replacement 9.1 to 8.6.

They are very close in my opinion. I would probably go with Jokic, but don't have any problem with anyone who goes for SGA.
 
LogGrad98 said:
So what is the objective measure of how many wins they are worth for their respective teams? Completely subjectively I would award SGA with maybe 6-8 extra wins. Jokic on that team has to be worth more than a dozen, maybe 15. How do you quantify that? You really think without SGA they are lottery bound? But it is pretty clear that without Jokic the Nuggets would be lottery bound. But with him they are top 4 in the west. Pretty stark difference really.
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IDK. I dont think MVP is a set of well defined parameters. If you want to treat it that way, that's fine. If you are basing the MVP off wins added for their team, Jokic would probably be your MVP.

But it's kind of laughable to me if people are acting like the Nuggets are bereft of talent. They have MPJ/Murray/Braun/Gordon who have all been great this season (and outside of Gordon, have been very healthy). Even Russ is having a pretty good season. The main reason Jokic is such a stark on/off difference maker is because their only backup 5 is a 36 year old DeAndre Jordan. I dont think the MVP voting should swing just because a team doesnt have a decent backup to that player's position. If you replaced Jokic with a league average starting center, the Nuggets would still be a good team.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
SGA leads Jokic in win shares, 16.4 to 15.3. Jokic leads SGA in Value Above Replacement 9.1 to 8.6.

They are very close in my opinion. I would probably go with Jokic, but don't have any problem with anyone who goes for SGA.
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The Hoopshype podcast had a MVP straw poll and they broke down the case for SGA pretty well. Pretty sure they all voted for SGA and the straw poll had SGA winning. I think it's pretty much a done deal at this point unless JOkic strings together more 60 point games.
 
I know the Thunder have a great team, mostly due to their defense, but their 3rd leading scorer averages 12 points per game (not counting Chet since he was injured most of the season). SGA has a huge offensive load for that team. It's not like he is just coasting on some team overloaded with talent.
 
You can make certainly make the case that Shai is best player outright, but I actually don’t think the MVP should go to the objectively best player each time. It wasn’t that way before and just started to be that way recently. MJ and LeBron would have won every award, and it would have been more boring that way. I don’t mind that the definition of MVP can be an eye of the beholder and is up to the voters discretion. One can decide that the MVP is simply the best player, or one can decide that the MVP is the player who represents the season the best (I.e best player on best team). But variety is good.

I found it more interesting when more voters were more narrative driven. I think what happened is that everyone started to just follow what Zach Lowe did. I don’t mind Zach voting the way he did, but I think it’s boring if everyone thinks the same as him. Now that the voters are public, they do not want to be shamed so they stay with the group think.
 
TIL that NBA.com has scores and videos for every dunk that was made this season. John Collins actually has the 3rd highest dunk score and Keyonte has the 7th highest dunk score. They track things like how high the player jumps, hang time, distance, etc.

Pretty Cool:

www.nba.com

Players Dunk Scores | Stats | NBA.com

Dunk Score ranks in-game dunks by calculating and modelling their physical and stylistic traits.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
 
SoberasHotRod said:
TIL that NBA.com has scores and videos for every dunk that was made this season. John Collins actually has the 3rd highest dunk score and Keyonte has the 7th highest dunk score. They track things like how high the player jumps, hang time, distance, etc.

Pretty Cool:

www.nba.com

Players Dunk Scores | Stats | NBA.com

Dunk Score ranks in-game dunks by calculating and modelling their physical and stylistic traits.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
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I highly recommend sorting the dunks by VERT and/or DIST. At least for me the most exciting dunks are watching guys fly through the air.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
TIL that NBA.com has scores and videos for every dunk that was made this season. John Collins actually has the 3rd highest dunk score and Keyonte has the 7th highest dunk score. They track things like how high the player jumps, hang time, distance, etc.

Pretty Cool:

www.nba.com

Players Dunk Scores | Stats | NBA.com

Dunk Score ranks in-game dunks by calculating and modelling their physical and stylistic traits.
www.nba.com www.nba.com
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That's WAY cool. I will have to look at it when I have some time. Real quick, who is number one (I would guess morant or Zion as I think those two have the highest potential to have the best dunk)
 
fishonjazz said:
That's WAY cool. I will have to look at it when I have some time. Real quick, who is number one (I would guess morant or Zion as I think those two have the highest potential to have the best dunk)
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Quentin Grimes has the highest rated dunk and then Shaedon Sharpe. Just a word of caution that highest rated doesn't mean the best. Obviously the best is subjective.
 
JHS gonna take down the Timberwolves today!
 
slc said:
Who is Point Guard Giannis please?
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Giannis plays for the Milwaukee bucks. He is also known as the Greek freak.
His teammates name is Damian lillard and normally is the point guard but didn't play that game so Giannis took over point guard duties.
Point God is a play on the term point guard.
 
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