I still remember the Kanter video where he was dunking from, "the free throw line" (It wasn't the free throw line) and people were all excited about how athletic he was, lol.
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I still remember the Kanter video where he was dunking from, "the free throw line" (It wasn't the free throw line) and people were all excited about how athletic he was, lol.
kcgar
Well-Known Member
Why are you listing his college numbers and not his NBA numbers. I said that "Jabari Smith in his current state would absolutely be picked in the lottery in this draft." Maybe, I wasn't clear, but Ace's floor is not lower than CURRENT Jabari. I believe that current Jabari would be picked in the lottery for this year's draft. He has him listed at #23. There is no way on any planet that Ace will ever be ranked as the 23rd pick in a re-draft (unless he is injured).Randomly I was just looking at Jabari Smith's draft profile and it is fairly similar to Ace. I would argue that Jabari's numbers are significantly better though.
Jabari Smith 2022 Draft Profile | Tankathon
Jabari Smith - PF - Auburn - 2022 NBA Draft Profile and Statswww.tankathon.com
I was just commenting on the fact that I just so happened to be looking at Jabari's college numbers, so it was kind of a coincidence.
What makes you so confident that Ace is going to be at least as good as current Jabari Smith? You say that like it is a given, when it's clearly not.
kcgar
Well-Known Member
That's how drafting any player works. You develop them and either they work out and you pay them or they don't and you don't pay them. Do you think we are going to pay Cody Williams?
Randomly I was just looking at Jabari Smith's draft profile and it is fairly similar to Ace. I would argue that Jabari's numbers are significantly better though.
Jabari Smith 2022 Draft Profile | Tankathon
Jabari Smith - PF - Auburn - 2022 NBA Draft Profile and Stats
Yeah, Jabari is an interesting case study. The thing about Jabari is that his shooting didn't translate, but I would still bet on a guy with his shooting indicators over and over again. But it is a reminder that even guys with good indicators sometimes don't shoot it as well as you'd expect. I'm not on the Ace can 100% shoot bandwagon even if I think he's better than his numbers show.
The things that worry me about Jabari that also worry me about Ace are the BBIQ/Feel and the inability to get to the basket.
Basketball Novice
New Member
You know evaluations are not that black and white. A good example of this is Jalen Green, who got paid 35 million a year in the hopes that he develops into the player everyone hoped he would be. He's certainly not being paid based on his performance in his rookie contract. Andrew Wiggins, after his rookie contract, got paid by the Wolves in the hopes he would turn into a star. Wiggins was and is an effective player, but its a far cry from where he was drafted. And I can't say that Wiggins worked out for the Wolves all that well.
Teams are incentivized to hold onto players because even a mildly bad contract is an asset that can be used to wheel and deal for other pieces. And teams also like to hold out hope on those tantalizing, high upside, super athletic, all potential players. That is what Ace is to me. He might very well work out and I will have egg on my face. But, half of the guys in the first round probably won't work out. If I am picking out which guys won't work out, I honestly would bet the under on Ace.
I don't get the Jabari Smith and Ace comp. Jabari Smith is/was a good spot-up shooter and switchable defensive player that can guard the rim. Ace is a an ace at shots with a hand in his face that doesn't pass and has some nice defensive tools. Being more specific, Jabari had/has no juice on the ball while Ace is all juice on the ball, they could not be more different in that regard.
Ace has a higher ceiling due to the fact that his offensive game isn't strictly reliant on having the table set for him. Smith has a higher floor because of his defensive ability.
Have to disagree with this. You may think that way of Jabari now, but in college he was absolutely a tough shot maker. Neither guy had the juice to get to the basket, but both took a heavy amount of mid range and three point jumpers. Jabari shot more 3's, but the amount of his baskets that were assisted as Ace is essentially the same.
Jabari
Ace
Problem in your ranking is you bet on "floor" for Ace, but I dont think you bet on "floor" on all the prospects you put above him.
Even projecting to his floor Ace is still long and athletic guy who can shoot some... so warm body off the bench at the least. Average 23rd guy in a redraft is an end of bench scrub.
Basketball Novice
New Member
Your right to a certain extent. I love guys like Noa and Beringer but have Ace at 23. You could say I am taking the ceiling view with those 2 and the floor view with Ace. But my board is more of guys I believe in vs. guys I don't. How can I say that I love a prospect like Walton Clayton Jr. and rank him behind a guy I don't like in Ace? I went through every prospect I have watched with this perspective in mind and Ace was at 23.
Ace is long and athletic and can shoot. All good qualities, maybe he should be higher on my board based on that baseline alone. But, I do think his overall basketball feel is that bad. Feel is a pretty nebulous, vague concept and it can't be defined in raw percentages and stats. That also makes evaluating feel, prone to bias and perhaps I do have some negative bias when it comes to Ace. Believe it or not, I am usually one to lean in on the numbers/statistics/percentages and Ace's numbers are decent in several categories. But, I don't think the numbers stand out that much either.
In summation, your right that I am taking more of a floor view with Ace than many others that are higher on my board. And my absolute floor view on Ace is, average to slightly above average jumpshooter who can never find easy shots or utilize his athleticism effectively offensively and also cant pass. The defense will probably be, at least, ok.
I think if you're making a pro-Ace argument here, it's probably that he can justify having the ball in his hands more because he can make midrange jumpers in a way that Smith's #s don't really indicate he was likely to be able to do.
fishonjazz
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The best empty gym workout video of all time was Porzingas' imo. Holy crap he looked amazing. I figured he would have a lebron like career after watching it. Still a decent player but that video blew my mind. I will never forget it. Unicorn lol
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
i have very little issue with that board. probably wouldn't take yang that high and you're a lot higher on fleming than i am, but overall, that looks pretty good.
Yes that's when Jabari Smith played college ball.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
i'm an idiot. i had jabari parker in mind. carry on.
Funny, I have had the Jabari Parker - Ace comparison run through my mind a bit. Parker was more of a play finisher/interior player, but I'd expect more of that stuff from Ace in the NBA. Some may take that as a slight, but Parker was pretty good before injuries and if he had a better mentality he'd certainly have been a star with good health.
I keep coming back to the same thing with Ace. You are getting a very special talent and one that you can only realistically expect to get by drafting in the top 3 of any given draft. But the way he applied and used his talent was just awful.
Look at how he changes speed. It's like he's playing in slow motion.
View: https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1918032678617793025
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
well said.
Look at how he changes speed. It's like he's playing in slow motion.
View: https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1918032678617793025
No dunks in a workout video is crazy