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Anna Muzychuk

Archie Moses

Archie Moses

Well-Known Member
In a few days I am going to lose two World Champion titles - one by one. Just because I decided not to go to Saudi Arabia. Not to play by someone's rules, not to wear abaya, not to be accompanied getting outside, and altogether not to feel myself a secondary creature. Exactly one year ago I won these two titles and was about the happiest person in the chess world but this time I feel really bad. I am ready to stand for my principles and skip the event, where in five days I was expected to earn more than I do in a dozen of events combined. All that is annoying, but the most upsetting thing is that almost nobody really cares. That is a really bitter feeling, still not the one to change my opinion and my principles. The same goes for my sister Mariya - and I am really happy that we share this point of view. And yes, for those few who care - we'll be back!
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https://www.9news.com.au/world/2017...to-play-in-saudi-arabia-because-of-dress-code

Much ado about nothing or good for her?
 
It looks like the protest isn't about wearing the abaya but that she would be treated like an unequal. Wearing the abaya out of respect for the culture isn't a problem anymore than us requiring people to wear non-revealing clothing and not go naked in the public square. Their culture requires these head scarfs - fine, respect them when in their land.
 
franklin said:
It looks like the protest isn't about wearing the abaya but that she would be treated like an unequal. Wearing the abaya out of respect for the culture isn't a problem anymore than us requiring people to wear non-revealing clothing and not go naked in the public square. Their culture requires these head scarfs - fine, respect them when in their land.
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Maybe I'm just ignorant on the subject (in all seriousness I would love an explanation for someone who can offer their perspective,) but I feel forcing someone to wear something based off of religious beliefs and making it the law is a little backwards and outdated. Can you imagine Mormons forcing people to wear their temple garments when they visited Utah?

I've read three articles today about the abaya and what it represents. To me, again, no one should be forced to wear anything based off of religious beliefs and it seems like a form of control or oppression. After reading the articles, people say it's a form of freedom rather than oppression. Interesting.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4796907
But for many secular Muslims and former Muslims, the hijab is not a symbol of freedom. It is a symbol of the fact that women in Islam are second class citizens and that this status is encoded in both sacred text and tradition, enforced by culture and law. The hijab lies at one end of a continuum with the burka, a portable fabric wall that prevents subject women from engaging fully with the world, and vice versa. It is a reminder that for millennia women have been chattel — literally property of men — and that this is the case in all of the Abrahamic sacred texts including the Bible and the Koran. This is why, in the Bible a rapist can be forced to buy and keep the damaged property. It is why, just last month in Dubai, a raped Austrian woman was told to marry her rapist.

For tens of millions of women around the world, Islamic head covering and isolation are not a matter of choice. In India, the practice of Purdah — keeping women shut away in walled compounds — has been a part of the culture since the time of the Mughal conquest. In Iran, Afghanistan, and some parts of Saudi Arabia women face fines, beatings, and worse for daring to show their hair. Before the U.S. deposed Saddam Hussein, Iraq had one of the highest rates in the Middle East of women in Ph.D. programs. Today, a woman with her head uncovered in some parts of Baghdad may be a target.
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I enjoy different religious frameworks, teachings and cultures. That said, I ended up leaving religion because I stopped believing in things, to me, that are weird, outdated and make absolutely zero sense.
 
As far as I know, the only religious aspect to it is for women to cover themselves up. There's nothing wrong with respecting that cultural/religious tradition. As far as women's rights on this goes, we do the same thing here with swimming suits but I don't see anyone outraged that women have to cover their boobs while men don't.
 
That is their law or custom. Our opinions of it are irrelevant really. Don't like it don't go. Sucks she will lose it but she will have future chances to get it back.
 
franklin said:
As far as I know, the only religious aspect to it is for women to cover themselves up. There's nothing wrong with respecting that cultural/religious tradition. As far as women's rights on this goes, we do the same thing here with swimming suits but I don't see anyone outraged that women have to cover their boobs while men don't.
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That would depend on the boobs.
 
franklin said:
As far as women's rights on this goes, we do the same thing here with swimming suits but I don't see anyone outraged that women have to cover their boobs while men don't.
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You made my brain short-circuit trying to decide if you made an excellent point or one that nada que ver.
 
We have our own puritanically driven social norms. It's just that to you it's normal and obvious that people should act within the constraints you're accustomed to.
 
If my wife and I were to travel to the Middle East, I would expect my wife to wear it. We would be visitors to their land. We should follow their cultures/laws. It’s kind of what you sign up for when you go there.
The women’s rights aspect of it is entirely different. But this one person boycotting will change nothing.
 
Bulletproof said:
We have our own puritanically driven social norms. It's just that to you it's normal and obvious that people should act within the constraints you're accustomed to.
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We absolutely do. We also have laws that are outrageous and outdated too, but if the US ever forced a foreigner to wear something based off of religious beliefs or be prosecuted, I'm sure more people would be outraged. There's a big difference imo.
 
bigb said:
If my wife and I were to travel to the Middle East, I would expect my wife to wear it. We would be visitors to their land. We should follow their cultures/laws. It’s kind of what you sign up for when you go there.
The women’s rights aspect of it is entirely different. But this one person boycotting will change nothing.
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I would hope so because she'd get in trouble if she didn't.
 
Archie Moses said:
Our opinions of humanity freedoms are not irrelevant to the slightest degree.
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Nice huge brush stroke there.

With the context of the society in question, their foreign relations, relationship to the US and our individual power over our own society...yes, our opinion is irrelevant. They will do them regardless of what we think about it.

Edit: My opinion is that their restrictions and attitude toward women is dumb and shouldn't be that way.
 
Stoked said:
No, I replied specifically to this scenario. All the context needed is in the article you posted.
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Ok, I still stand by my reply. You can call it a huge brush stroke. I'll call it a response, specific to the scenario in which you replied.
 
Archie Moses said:
We absolutely do. We also have laws that are outrageous and outdated too, but if the US ever forced a foreigner to wear something based off of religious beliefs or be prosecuted, I'm sure more people would be outraged. There's a big difference imo.
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Abaya, burqa, whatever doesn't carry any sacred religious significance, LDS garments do. Big difference. Now, if these guests were required to pray to the East 5 times a day or whatever then you might have a point. But name me one culture who wants those not of their faith to wear their holy items? I can't think of any.
 
franklin said:
Abaya, burqa, whatever doesn't carry any sacred religious significance, LDS garments do. Big difference. Now, if these guests were required to pray to the East 5 times a day or whatever then you might have a point. But name me one culture who wants those not of their faith to wear their holy items? I can't think of any.
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They may not be sacred like garments and it may have been a bad example to compare the two, but abayas are worn or forced to be worn because of religious beliefs. To me, having a government back and force religious beliefs, dress codes and customs is simply outdated.
 
Equating women's rights issues in the US to those in Saudi Arabia -full retard

Being way way way worse on women's issues than most every country on the planet is just part of their culture, respect it. -Again full retard
 
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