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Can someone explain how police should handle people resisting arrest?

Hotdog

Hotdog

Well-Known Member
With all these police shootings in the news. All we hear about is how awful the police are for using deadly force. There are never any solutions.

My question is, when does deadly force become ok, if ever?

To me it feels like the crowd that is against the police dont want to see it from the cops point of view. A cop has an already very tough job to do. He or she has to deal with dangerous people on a daily basis. People who have no interest in obeying the law. There are 1000's of videos that show how people can react to cops. Its not pretty. This is black, white,and every other color. They dont always go to jail easily. Its a struggle a lot of times.

What is all this protesting from blacklivesmatter supposed to accomplish? New legislation? That says what? Black people have the option now to not be arrested? Or you can resist all you want? Its now a game and you can see if you can get out of the situation? How much are we prepared to say the cops have to endure to do the job? A punch to the face? Two punches? Two punches and kick? Maybe 2 gun shots before they can act? Or even just have to sit there and argue with the person? Should that be an option for citizens? How much defiance do they have to put up with? How much risk do they have to take with their own lives?

I really struggle to understand what people think cops are supposed to do when a person resists a lawful arrest. Or even an unlawful arrest. Shouldnt that person just wait to have their day in court? What good can ever come with taking on the cops? How in the world else are the police supposed to do what they are there to do, which is force compliance?

I just cant imagine anything changing. I dont know how you ask a cop to stop approaching each person with supreme caution. Who is going to want to be a cop if you start telling them they cant use the tactics they are using now.

Cops successfully put people in jail all the time without killing them, but you dont hear about that. All we are hearing about is the very small percentages of things that go wrong. Why is this being blown out of proportion, considering what cops have to deal with?

Does anyone have a solution? Or is just going to be cop hating season forever?
 
Hack said:
I really struggle to understand what people think cops are supposed to do when a person resists a lawful arrest. Or even an unlawful arrest. Shouldnt that person just wait to have their day in court?
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Right, because if you go to court and there's no video and cops were arresting you unlawfully, you're totally going to win. You will totally be believed over multiple police officers because that's how it works. Cops never lie and they certainly never protect each other.

The life of a police officer should NEVER be more valuable than the life of any other person. That'd be a good start at reforming the police. Self-defense standards for cops should be the same as for regular citizens. If I can't shoot a man because I thought a wallet was a gun, the police shouldn't be able to either.
 
I'm on my phone so I can't be as precise as I'd like to be, but I've posted a pretty simple solution dozens of times.

I think both police and citizens need to be trained in a specific protocol for traffic stops and on the street interactions. Both sides know how they are supposed to act so that everyone is safe. If someone deviates from the standard protocol it will be clear on video footage. It will be a clear sign that someone is not following the rules. At that point the police will follow a ladder force that is in place.

It will remove much of the current grey area
 
Hack said:
With all these police shootings in the news. All we hear about is how awful the police are for using deadly force. There are never any solutions.

My question is, when does deadly force become ok, if ever?

To me it feels like the crowd that is against the police dont want to see it from the cops point of view. A cop has an already very tough job to do. He or she has to deal with dangerous people on a daily basis. People who have no interest in obeying the law. There are 1000's of videos that show how people can react to cops. Its not pretty. This is black, white,and every other color. They dont always go to jail easily. Its a struggle a lot of times.

What is all this protesting from blacklivesmatter supposed to accomplish? New legislation? That says what? Black people have the option now to not be arrested? Or you can resist all you want? Its now a game and you can see if you can get out of the situation? How much are we prepared to say the cops have to endure to do the job? A punch to the face? Two punches? Two punches and kick? Maybe 2 gun shots before they can act? Or even just have to sit there and argue with the person? Should that be an option for citizens? How much defiance do they have to put up with? How much risk do they have to take with their own lives?

I really struggle to understand what people think cops are supposed to do when a person resists a lawful arrest. Or even an unlawful arrest. Shouldnt that person just wait to have their day in court? What good can ever come with taking on the cops? How in the world else are the police supposed to do what they are there to do, which is force compliance?

I just cant imagine anything changing. I dont know how you ask a cop to stop approaching each person with supreme caution. Who is going to want to be a cop if you start telling them they cant use the tactics they are using now.

Cops successfully put people in jail all the time without killing them, but you dont hear about that. All we are hearing about is the very small percentages of things that go wrong. Why is this being blown out of proportion, considering what cops have to deal with?

Does anyone have a solution? Or is just going to be cop hating season forever?
Click to expand...

Good post. Pretty much every controversial clip I've seen starts with someone resisting arrest or not following orders in some way. Even if the cop is corrupt and messing with you it's pretty simple... don't resist arrest or make the officer feel unsafe in any manner.

The flip side is that police officers need to be policed. Every county could have a wholly independent entity that reviews controversial cases.
 
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JimLes said:
Right, because if you go to court and there's no video and cops were arresting you unlawfully, you're totally going to win. You will totally be believed over multiple police officers because that's how it works. Cops never lie and they certainly never protect each other.

The life of a police officer should NEVER be more valuable than the life of any other person. That'd be a good start at reforming the police. Self-defense standards for cops should be the same as for regular citizens. If I can't shoot a man because I thought a wallet was a gun, the police shouldn't be able to either.
Click to expand...

This is what Im talking about. Its just complaining without truly showing you understand the dilema cops have.You didnt provide a single solution.

Lets just get something straight too. Most cops dont put themselves first. They arent thinking their live is more valuable. Hence the whole reason why they even serve. Its because they put others lives before theirs. and want to protect the people in the community from bad people. To disagree with that is just being cynical and not being fair to cops,and pretty much spitting in their faces.. Yes, we all know that their are bad seeds in the force. There are bad seeds in every part of life. Its not perfect.

Secondly, no, it should not be the same for cops and regular citizens. The citizens arent out there to confront potentially bad, people and uphold the laws. Comparing the two is dumb. Your regular citizen doesnt pull people over and engage in tense situations. No citizen is ID'ing a suspect. It would make zero sense to say they have to adhere to the exact same standards.
 
Gameface said:
I'm on my phone so I can't be as precise as I'd like to be, but I've posted a pretty simple solution dozens of times.

I think both police and citizens need to be trained in a specific protocol for traffic stops and on the street interactions. Both sides know how they are supposed to act so that everyone is safe. If someone deviates from the standard protocol it will be clear on video footage. It will be a clear sign that someone is not following the rules. At that point the police will follow a ladder force that is in place.

It will remove much of the current grey area
Click to expand...

I cant see law breakers taking a police protocol training seriously. Its worth trying, but I dont think it would effect the outcomes. Might just give cops more of an out to use force too. Is that gangbanger who dropped out of school going to suddenly take police protocol training seriously? Could also put otherwise law abiding citizens in dangerous situations too if they forgot the protocol.

Now that we live in times with cameras, that should help the situation, but sometimes you have to wonder if they even helps. People often watches videos and derive what they want out of them. There are often many different opinions even when everyone is watching the same thing. In the case of Alton Sterling, its not clear whether or not he was going for the gun in his pocket. Its not clear how close he was to getting it. If he even was close. It appears he is resisting too, but its not clear just how much. So even with video, its still not clear. But we still have people from blacklivesmatters who only want to see it how they want to. The cops are already guilty in there eyes.
 
Hack said:
Lets just get something straight too. Most cops dont put themselves first. They arent thinking their live is more valuable. Hence the whole reason why they even serve. Its because they put others lives before theirs. and want to protect the people in the community from bad people. To disagree with that is just being cynical and not being fair to cops,and pretty much spitting in their faces..
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm cynical. I don't believe for a second that the reason people join the police force is because they want to help others. There's a shortage of social workers any place you go, but I don't see people rejected from the police academy joining those ranks. They give you a gun and a power of life and death over everyone you deal with. How many other jobs are like that? Why is there such a gender imbalance on the force where nearly every other job where you serve and help people is dominated by women?

Yes, we all know that their are bad seeds in the force. There are bad seeds in every part of life. Its not perfect.
Click to expand...

Other organizations weed out their bad seeds. I'm a member of a teachers' union. You see teachers get convicted of molestation and the union isn't fighting for them tooth and nail. It's a pretty simple deal, you touch a kid, you're done. Why can't it work that way for cops? When is the last time you saw a cop convicted of excessive force? When is the last time you saw a cop investigated for it and the police department say "We'll wait to see what the verdict is before we comment or offer our support to the person." Nope, close ranks, defend you own. Am I really supposed to look at the rate of conviction of police officers for abuse of their powers and think "Hey, it must be so pathetically low because it never ever happens?"


Secondly, no, it should not be the same for cops and regular citizens. The citizens arent out there to confront potentially bad, people and uphold the laws. Comparing the two is dumb. Your regular citizen doesnt pull people over and engage in tense situations. No citizen is ID'ing a suspect. It would make zero sense to say they have to adhere to the exact same standards.
Click to expand...

So all animals are equal but pigs are more equal?
 
I feel the concept of thinking how to protect cops first is weird, when you consider that their primary concern should be creating safety for everyone. They are the ones trained to utilize weapons in many ways and most educated about consequences of gun usage.
They're the ones finding themselves in stressful situations more often than most (unarmed) citizens. They're the ones trained to identify and disarm those kind of situations.
I am completely shocked when I read/see how irresponsible law enforcement acts in many tragedies involving civilians.
 
Hack said:
Ya, because Im fine with how the cops handle things. Why would I need to come up with a solution?
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Why are you asking people to provide a solution if there is no problem.
Weird thread
 
JimLes said:
Yes, I'm cynical. I don't believe for a second that the reason people join the police force is because they want to help others. There's a shortage of social workers any place you go, but I don't see people rejected from the police academy joining those ranks. They give you a gun and a power of life and death over everyone you deal with. How many other jobs are like that? Why is there such a gender imbalance on the force where nearly every other job where you serve and help people is dominated by women?



Other organizations weed out their bad seeds. I'm a member of a teachers' union. You see teachers get convicted of molestation and the union isn't fighting for them tooth and nail. It's a pretty simple deal, you touch a kid, you're done. Why can't it work that way for cops? When is the last time you saw a cop convicted of excessive force? When is the last time you saw a cop investigated for it and the police department say "We'll wait to see what the verdict is before we comment or offer our support to the person." Nope, close ranks, defend you own. Am I really supposed to look at the rate of conviction of police officers for abuse of their powers and think "Hey, it must be so pathetically low because it never ever happens?"




So all animals are equal but pigs are more equal?
Click to expand...

Again, not the same with teachers and cops. Kids dont have reputation of trying to kill teachers and fight them. Even though some do on occasion. Dealing with violent and unstable people is something cops do on a daily basis. The two are inherently much different.

If you are so concerned that nothing but bad people join up to be cops for the wrong reasons, why dont you and people with your same opinion go be a cop and try to make a difference? Show everybody how its done? Seriously, do you not care about other people and your country? Dont tell me to do it either. Im proud of the people in uniform. I hold a different view. They are very brave to me. So why wont you do it if you see a very real problem? Scared? Dont care about anybody? Which is it? We can find a teacher to replace you. We could really use your expertise here, if you truly know so much more than everyone else. This is your calling. Show us how its done.
 
Pretty much what I thought this thread would turn into. No one with any kind of solution to a so called problem. Think about that next time you want to complain about cops.
 
Hack said:
You arent very smart are you?
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Says the person who started a thread talking about a problem that he thinks doesn't exist and then asked for solutions to the non existent problem.

If you think there is no problem then obviously you are not going to like anyone's solutions so there is really no reason for you to be involved in this thread. Seems like this thread was created for people who see a problem and want to discuss that problem. For you there is no problem, therefore nothing for you to discuss.

LOL
 
fishonjazz said:
Says the person who started a thread talking about a problem that he thinks doesn't exist and then asked for solutions to the non existent problem.

If you think there is no problem then obviously you are not going to like anyone's solutions so there is really no reason for you to be involved in this thread. Seems like this thread was created for people who see a problem and want to discuss that problem. For you there is no problem, therefore nothing for you to discuss.

LOL
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Im sorry, but turning up stupid 10 notches doesnt help. I cant come down to your level. Its immpossibruh.
 
Hack said:
Im sorry, but turning up stupid 10 notches doesnt help. I cant come down to your level. Its immpossibruh.
Click to expand...
Ok, I see you have no way to dispute my point about your creation of this thread and purpose in it.
You have nothing to offer like usual

Looks like we are done here.
 
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