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McCollum vs Burke vs Schroeder

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blackham9258

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My concern: People all week have been making excuses about Burke saying lots of people struggle in summer league with shooting and go on to great careers, and conversely some players play great and then never see the court. This is true, but the lack of athleticism of Evan Turner was a leading indicator of what was to come. So the question is, is what we saw out of Burke a leading indicator of things to come or not?

My issue isn't the bad shooting week, it is the athletic ability to create space which was the concern coming into the league about Trey.

I was excited on draft night that we supposedly got someone that was supposed to not be there, but sometimes there is a reason for that. Even that night if you would have given me the pick I would have taken McCollum because I think pure PG isn't as important as pure shooter and athleticism that Cj provides. Plus I do think CJ can be a PG in the mold of Lillard, Lillard played the same style as CJ in college and there were questions about his ability to play the PG. I think Lillard is more athletic than CJ by a little but I think CJ is by far the superior shooter.

I look forward to being wrong about this but I would have taken CJ.

Preceeding the draft I wanted us to draft Schroeder #14 if we kept it, and either Gobert, Dieng, or Reggie Bullock at #21. I felt that Schroeder had and may have the most upside of all the PG's and of course time will tell if he just has measurables like Rondo with a better jump shot at a younger age, or if he becomes a star like Rondo.

However as the days to the draft got closer and D Lindsay kept saying they were going to be aggressive trying to move up and that they felt like they could people began to speculate about who we were going up to get. Chad Ford seemed to think that it was McCollum as did many others. Leading up to the draft most people were mixed as to who would go as the first PG off the board:

Some were in the camp of MCW, some Burke, and some McCollum. I was in the McCollum camp because I think that I would prefer some size and great shooting compared to tons of size with MCW. Burke always seemed overated to me and I just didn't like the athletecism issue with him. The size issue with Burke never bothered me because he is pretty strong, 6'1" and has a 6'6" wingspan. But it was the athletecism that I really took issue with and the two foot jumping...THINGS that showed big time this week.

But we drafted Burke and the buzz was wow, we got to #9 as expected to take our future PG but I think the Jazz brass expected that if they got there that it would be McCollum that was waiting for them... I think when the chips fell our way and Detroit took the guy that Minny wanted we were equally shocked that all 3 guys were there instead of just a choice between MCW and McCollum.

My point is: They brought in CJ, and it seems that they were moving up to get CJ... so why did they switch to Burke when the got to #9 and had their choice of all 3?

Answers could include: Burke was the best pure PG (a statement that the Jazz have said a lot lately) since they took him. But I think that if you asked the Jazz who they were moving up to get before the draft the choice would have been McCollum and that all only changed in the 15 minutes that preceeded the selection when Burks slid.

I am sure that the Jazz studied his game as thoroughly as they did CJ and that to them it was an easy choice... but I really worry about Burkes ability to compete athletically.... everything else I like about him but that.

So put me down as a conflicted fan:
1) Love the choice of Burke and am hopeful, but really worry that his 2 foot jumping and lack of athleticism are leading indicators of an Evan Turner type problem.
2) I Would have chosen CJ if I was deciding at #9.
3) I will watch over the next 5 years to see if Schroeder ends up being better than both.

What are your thoughts.
 
I think we mighta drafted rotten eggs.

I didn't like the look on Burke's face during the summer league. He looked sour.

Then the pistons comment happened and that he looked forward to "starting" his career here. MAybe CJ or Schroeder woulda been more excited for the Rockies.
 
I think the Jazz liked CJ almost as much as Burke, and may have even traded up to get him at 9 if Burke was off the table. Personally I think there is a 50/50 chance CJ turns out better. Having said that:

1. Over his 4 year college career, McCollum averaged around 2.5 assists a game in college in 33 minutes a game and did not trend up, that historically has never translated to an NBA PG. Lillard was at least at 3.6, and he is a pretty big exception to the rule.
2. McCollum only has .75 wingpsan on Burke, and actually has a shorter standing reach than Burke (effective playing height).
3. At Lehigh McCollum played scrubs compared to what Burke faced on a nightly basis.
 
I have to admit I was on the Schroeder bandwagon through the draft. I wasn't a big McCollum guys because I was convinced that he wasn't a PG.

With Burke I think he is fine athletically. He doesn't have an advantage so when he goes to the hoop or tries to create a shot he needs to study Luke Ridnour's game- Floaters and deceptive footwork. Burke is going to have to adjust his game because what he didn't in College isn't going to be good enough in the NBA.

Who knows if he is willing to put in the work to change his game that much. Note that defensively he was able to keep his man in front mostly.
 
I was for Burke over CJ. I think it was the right pick, and I won't ever bash the front office for making it. Had they picked CJ over Burke, I would have been OK with it though. Those two will be linked together for the next 5 years in the eyes of Jazz fans though like DWill/Paul and Hayward/George.
 
Ok maybe this is a totally ridiculous suggestion but look at those Vegas league courts. 100 times better than the **** our guys were playing on. I think it makes a differnece. Am I suggesting Burke may have done better on a real court? Yes I am.
 
I was happy that the Jazz ultimately had their choice among the three PGs. Given a choice between Burke and CJ, I would have picked Burke as a safer pick because he was a "real PG" who made great reads, made great passes, and played at a fast pace at Michigan. What we're looking for is someone who can maximize the value of our bigs and get them easy looks. The argument for Burke was that he's the best passer of the bunch who is also able to knock down shots. My main concern with him was whether he would be able to get by a defender and get into the lane, but I was actually pleasantly surprised at how he did that on many occasions in Summer League, and he should be effective working with a screener. My other concern was whether he would be a liability on defense, and from what little I've seen so far, it looks as though he'll be okay there too.

I really liked CJ as a prospect, and i think the can absolutely compete at a high level and impact the game. I would give him some limited comparisons to DWill and Steph Curry. The question with CJ is simply--is he really a PG? Do the Jazz want a guy who is going to run a complex offense, or a guy who is a luxury version of Mo Williams? How well will CJ transition to that floor leader role, something that's not easy to do? This added a risk factor that simply made Burke the safer pick.

Burke struggled in Summer League, no doubt about it, but I don't think it's due to a lack of athleticism so much as a lack of knowing what he wants to do. He's thinking through things, being indecisive and trying to find his way in a scrimmage-like situation with a bunch of players he's never played with before. Once he gets comfortable, I think he's going to be plenty quick, he's going to get to where he wants to go on the floor, and he's going to make plays. I'm really not worried about it at this point.

Lets see how he does after he gets 25 games under his belt.
 
Sneakers said:
Ok maybe this is a totally ridiculous suggestion but look at those Vegas league courts. 100 times better than the **** our guys were playing on. I think it makes a differnece. Am I suggesting Burke may have done better on a real court? Yes I am.
Click to expand...

I agree. There seems to be a lot more space to work with, especially between the 3-pt line and mid court.
 
We probably wont ever really know how they will compare because Portland will be playing Cj a lot at the 2 so the ability to play PG may never really be tested.
 
Jazz were in the worst possible position on draft night. They made the trade and there before them was a player they hadn't expected to be there. They had not brought Burke in for a group workout, or even a private one. They may have got some intell from Horny, or another team...but could they trust it? Trey had refused any competitive workouts, and refused to workout for the Jazz. So despite working out 70+ players they had to set aside all their meticulous preparations and draft a guy nine other teams had passed on (yes I meant 9).

Even worse for the Jazz was they had their choice of all the pgs. If any pg in the draft works out better for any reason the Jazz will be criticized.

There is only a small chance this comes off shinning for the Jazz, and the early returns are not encouraging. Patience.
 
mellow said:
Jazz were in the worst possible position on draft night. They made the trade and there before them was a player they hadn't expected to be there. They had not brought Burke in for a group workout, or even a private one. They may have got some intell from Horny, or another team...but could they trust it? Trey had refused any competitive workouts, and refused to workout for the Jazz. So despite working out 70+ players they had to set aside all their meticulous preparations and draft a guy nine other teams had passed on (yes I meant 9).

Even worse for the Jazz was they had their choice of all the pgs. If any pg in the draft works out better for any reason the Jazz will be criticized.

There is only a small chance this comes off shinning for the Jazz, and the early returns are not encouraging. Patience.
Click to expand...

The plan was to draft Olynyk. Burke was never supposed to be in the range where the Jazz could get him. Utah heard Boston wanted Olynyk at #13 and when Burke fell to #9 they pounced on him.
 
McCollum was good tonight in his debut. Looking forward to seeing Schroeder again tomorrow night. Draft night was happy sad when we took Burke with the news flashed on screen that the 9th pick of Burke was for us with those guys still on the table. I told my brother, IBProfane that I was very happy to have Burke because I thought he could contribute right away more than Schroeder, but that I thought Schroeder would have a better career once he came into his own. Also said that McCollum would have been a great fit for us because Alec and Gordon are good distributors, certain his scoring would translate. Now I feel like I was wrong that Burke could contribute the most on all fronts right away. Hopefully my current concerns are dispelled.
 
I think the Jazz had plenty of scouting on Burke. A workout wasn't going to add much from the Combine. I don't think that's a big factor. John Stockton had even reportedly helped scout the PGs too. Burke isn't some unknown.
 
Catchall said:
I think the Jazz had plenty of scouting on Burke. A workout wasn't going to add much from the Combine. I don't think that's a big factor. John Stockton had even reportedly helped scout the PGs too. Burke isn't some unknown.
Click to expand...

Burke grabbed everyone's heart with the tourny run he had. Wow, I have never seen a performance like the one he had against Kansas.
 
I thought Mccollum had a crappy game. The dude is a chucker. He shot 19 times and only went to the free throw once?
 
Idk, does this make everyone feel better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syd6IHwcx9o
 
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