Radical islamists killing atheists now..

[Deleted member 848]

I don't think anyone is saying that all Muslims are bad or that the Muslim religion as a whole is bad.

I thought the thread title says right in it "radical Muslim extremists" so I figured that is what we are discussing.

read RedJazzFans post. Thats what prompted me to join.

 

[Siro]

Yes, but how many of them are religious minorities? Inquisition was waged specifically against religious minorities-- and it was permanent. Still exceeds ISIS on those two fronts.

ISIS specifically targets religious minorities as well. Either way, I don't want to compare what Christians did ages ago to what Muslims are doing now. The issue is that Christians did that **** back when the standards were far lower. And while Christians have generally behaved far worse than Muslims historically, the latter behaved MISERABLY in modern standards. There is no end to Muslim atrocities throughout history, just like there is no end to Christian ones.

 

[Deleted member 848]

and Joe's ridiculous posts. No Hindu region has terrorism. Well. They do have a massive, massive infanticide problem. And a rape problem. The worst in the world. Buddhist regions have terrorism. Christian regions wage ethnic cleansing against Muslim minorities even as recently as the 90s.

These conversations are simply illegitimate, factually incorrect, and rooted in the justifications of proven Islamophobes.

 

[fishonjazz]

read RedJazzFans post. Thats what prompted me to join.

My bad then. I should not be involved in this thread anyway. It never goes any where and more ignorant than most on the topic.

I'm out of here. Good luck bro

 

[Siro]

Well no **** they're supportive. Do they have a choice? Vast majority of North Korea is supportive of their communist regime. Those who risk their lives do so for the sake of personal interests. Again, this support will dwindle once the region is prevented from being flooded with Oil money

Poor Muslim countries support the same ****. Blaming others is easy, but I don't see what the confidence that once money stops things will magically get fixed is based on.

 

[Deleted member 848]

ISIS specifically targets religious minorities as well.

Yes,I never said it wasn't-- but the conversation was who has committed more atrocities to other faiths. You said ISIS > Inquisition, which is incorrect as we now both realize.

Either way, I don't want to compare what Christians did ages ago to what Muslims are doing now. The issue is that Christians did that **** back when the standards were far lower. And while Christians have generally behaved far worse than Muslims historically, the latter behaved MISERABLY in modern standards. There is no end to Muslim atrocities throughout history, just like there is no end to Christian ones.

Of course. But these examples NEED to be brought up because Christians CONSTANTLY perch themselves up on a high horse. I know you're sick and tired of me typing these same words over and over again (how do you think I feel?) but take a look at this thread. People still have no ****ing idea. You do, but most dont. The lack of this knowledge is a leading cause to Islamophobia, which very much is a stigmatizing, negative issue in my life.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Poor Muslim countries support the same ****.

Which ones? Let's get a list going. How many have terrorism fueled by Saudi? How many adopt Wahhabist Islam created and perpetrated by Saudi? They are the head of the snake.

Blaming others is easy, but I don't see what the confidence that once money stops things will magically get fixed is based on.

Umm logic? Yemenis dont die without US weapons supplied by Saudi. IS doesnt become a thing without Saudi. All paths lead to that reprehensible nation.

 

[Siro]

Which ones? Let's get a list going. How many have terrorism fueled by Saudi? How many adopt Wahhabist Islam created and perpetrated by Saudi? They are the head of the snake.




Umm logic? Yemenis dont die without US weapons supplied by Saudi. IS doesnt become a thing without Saudi. All paths lead to that reprehensible nation.

Terror mentality must exist for the Wahhabis to fuel it in the first place.

I don't want to go back and forth all night, but I find this picture funny. Your thesis is that both poverty and wealth enable terror. The wealthy needs to get poor before reforms are possible, but the poor will turn to terrorism making reform impossible!

But maybe you're right. Maybe if the US would just stop supporting Saudi Arabia, its populace will revolt and reform and whatever. It goes counter to my experience, but who knows?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Terror mentality must exist for the Wahhabis to fuel it in the first place.

I don't want to go back and forth all night, but I find this picture funny. Your thesis is that both poverty and wealth enable terror. The wealthy needs to get poor before reforms are possible, but the poor will turn to terrorism making reform impossible!

It's because you're voiding the picture completely of nuance. I'll break down my thoughts simply:


- regions with societal, political, and economic instability breed crime. They breed violence. For this, there is not any debate. The exact types of crimes tend to be regionally and culturally-dependent-- and for Islam, it happens to be known as terrorism. Violence against those considered outgroups.
- regions with political stability, and non-centralized economic prosperity tend to enable peaceful, educated societies that provide fertility for many different social movements, including those that clash with societal norms. This is seen in Muslim countries too, of course

Saudi is stable in that her autocrats have maintained power for generations-- however, the economic prosperity is centralized. Not only that, but their prosperity is uniquely used to fuel the terrorism of poorer Muslim nations. Of course any politician in Syria, or Iraq that prevails will be the one with Saudi support-- they are the ones that provide the most money, and the most power.

We want all nations to be socially and economically prosperous. Unfortunately, Saudi is using its economic prosperity to fuel terrorism throughout the entire world. This is why the 'need to be made poor. Not because beign rich is bad-- it's because they are uniquely placed as the head of the snake of Islamic extremism, and the problem will never go away so long as they exist.

Kosovo was lucky. Many said that they were going to seek Saudi-help as a last resort during their fight for independence in the late 90s, before Clinton stepped in. That's how they get you. Here's the support-- but here come the other variables associated with us helping you.

The US saved our skins. We were lucky. Yemen? Syria? Iraq? Clearly not as lucky. This is what needs to be understood. There's definitely a ton of reading you should do on the matter. Glenn Greenwald is one that I'd highly recommend. Follow him on twitter.

But maybe you're right. Maybe if the US would just stop supporting Saudi Arabia, its populace will revolt and reform and whatever. It goes counter to my experience, but who knows?

Cant wait for the world to move away from oil.

 

[♪alt13]

Yes,I never said it wasn't-- but the conversation was who has committed more atrocities to other faiths. You said ISIS > Inquisition, which is incorrect as we now both realize.




Of course. But these examples NEED to be brought up because Christians CONSTANTLY perch themselves up on a high horse. I know you're sick and tired of me typing these same words over and over again (how do you think I feel?) but take a look at this thread. People still have no ****ing idea. You do, but most dont. The lack of this knowledge is a leading cause to Islamophobia, which very much is a stigmatizing, negative issue in my life.

I'm sorry that the current state of world affairs has lead people to stereotyping you. I truly am. Individuals should be judged on their own merit. I truly believe that.

I agree with siro. I agree that secularism really is key. It's clear that Muslim societies have an immunity to the march of secularism. I think that the immunity of Islam to secularism is centered on the public display/endorsement of worship.(call to prayer, praying in public, Burqas) These daily practices are just not compatible with secularism. While it is true that Christians are also quit public with their worship they aren't in the same league as Muslims.

Public displays of dedication to an ideology are dangerous whether it be religious or political. The worst of these ideologies always seem to have these mechanisms written into them.

There is hope. We can always get our us and them fix by supporting sports teams

 

[DutchJazzer]

and Joe's ridiculous posts. No Hindu region has terrorism. Well. They do have a massive, massive infanticide problem. And a rape problem. The worst in the world. Buddhist regions have terrorism. Christian regions wage ethnic cleansing against Muslim minorities even as recently as the 90s.

These conversations are simply illegitimate, factually incorrect, and rooted in the justifications of proven Islamophobes.

why is that a problem?
kill em in the womb our out of the womb same **** right?
its just a matter of an inch or 2
don't see the problem

 

[Stoked]

Yes, but how many of them are religious minorities? Inquisition was waged specifically against religious minorities-- and it was permanent. Still exceeds ISIS on those two fronts.

In all fairness they are targeting any one not Sunni. Christians, Yazidis, Kurds, Athiests...Even Shia populations. Sounds like total cleansing to me.

Edit: Amen on your getting away from oil comment. That will be huge for the Middle East. Might actually get people out of their backyard and give them a chance to get real about where they want to be headed.

 

[Jamezz]

lol. Ya. Just like those 'issues' that the massive Turkish population has raised in Germany since the fall of the Ottoman empire.

I don't know about Turkish in Germany, I sure know about Moroccan in Spain. Not every country is the same Dala.

 

[Jamezz]

The atrocities committed by both moors and christian in the Middle Ages can be equally condemned.

 

[fishonjazz]

The atrocities committed by both moors and christian in the Middle Ages can be equally condemned.

True
Thank god I'm not living in the middle ages