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Remarkably Deep

Chris

Well-Known Member
I rarely get overly excited about the Jazz' offseason moves because usually they're nothing all that spectacular. But, I have to say, for a team that didn't have any first round draft picks, missed out on getting Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall, and didn't have a lot of money or the big name market to go after top-name free agents, the Jazz have really done quite well for themselves. I was pretty amazed by how deep our rotation was last year, but even if we stand pat and don't make any other moves, this upcoming season's team looks deeper than almost every other team in the league.

Sometimes I have to type things out to get it in focus, so here's a tentative rotation for next season as things currently stand:

PG Mo Williams / Jamaal Tinsley / Earl Watson

SG Randy Foye / Alec Burks / Kevin Murphy

SF Marvin Williams / Gordon Hayward / DeMarre Carroll

PF Paul Millsap / Derek Favors / Jeremy Evans

C Al Jefferson / Enes Kanter

Now there's a lot of ifs and what-not when it comes to people like Earl Watson and crunching the salary numbers. That's also only 14 roster spots. And, I'm sure Gordon will start some games at the 2 and even at the 3. But the point is, Corbin can play with those rotations as much as he wants and really base it on match-ups -- that's the kind of depth we have. Who knows what will happen with Millsap and Jefferson before / during / after this coming season, but as it stands right now, things look pretty awesome.

Now let's break down the positions one by one:

PG: We no longer have to deal with an under-performing Devin Harris, who only showed flashes of his former self this past season. Mo Williams is a young veteran, who is excited to be here and who really wants to become a leader, which is what a starting point guard should be. Keeping Tinsley was a great idea, as he has shown leadership and is both comfortable and competent at the backup role. Whether we hold on to Watson or not remains to be seen, but Blake Ahearn is also fine at that third point guard spot.

SG: I love the Randy Foye acquisition. On a one-year deal for short money, this guy was a steal. A good three point shooter and a solid contributor all around. Back him up with an up-and-coming Alec Burks and the promising Kevin Murphy and that position is well-manned, even if Hayward never plays a minute at the 2, which he will.

SF: Marvin Williams was a very good pickup when you consider that we got him in exchange for Devin Harris, who I'm sure had very little trade value at the deadline last February. Locke made a really good point in his podcast where he mentioned that the Foye and Marvin acquisitions need to be looked at from the perspective of what did we get, not whether they were drafted too high based on how they've panned out thus far. Marvin is a very good starting small forward in this league and is a tough match-up for the opposing team. If Hayward plays the 3 most of the year, he may start some games and be the second unit leader in others. Either way, the 3 is covered and DeMarre Carroll is a solid third option.

PF/C: I'm going to combine these positions because of the flexibility that we have here. Everyone except Millsap and Evans can play both positions capably and probably will do exactly that once the season begins. Also, I do think re-upping Evans was a smart move. If we didn't have a log jam at PF, we would actually get to see why he's worth the salary that he'll be making. And he did the Mailman dunk.

Honestly, on a team this deep, there's going to be so many rotations in which guys will get minutes, I don't think it'll matter too much who starts and who comes off the bench. I think Ty did a good job inculcating that idea last season and this year's squad gives him all the more reason and flexibility to continue in that fashion.

Still, look at the ages on this team. We didn't bring in a bunch of old geezers (haven't used that word in a while) just to provide veteran leadership. We trimmed a lot of fat (Harris, Bell) when it comes to under-performing players who were hogging minutes. We drafted well late in the draft, in my opinion, and we didn't acquire one-dimensional players. We got veteran leadership at a good price by acquiring guys who have a good deal of experience, lots of character, and plenty of tread left on the tires. (Did we even acquire anyone over the age of 27?) We're still the youngest team in the league, yet we will be starting 26/27-year olds who can teach the youngsters under them quite a bit in the process. Not bad.

We also have a lot of team guys who either chose to be here or seem genuinely pleased that they are here. Throw in a legitimate training camp and give these guys some time to play together. Like I said, I don't know what will happen with Al this season, but I can only imagine that he'll appreciate having a few other young veterans on the squad to provide some more leadership. The best part is, if we end up trading him or someone else, or if (heaven forbid) we get bitten by the injury bug, the Jazz are deep enough to absorb things like this and still put a great, young, exciting product on the floor every night.

As I mentioned previously, I thought this offseason was going to be a stinker when we ended up qualifying for the playoffs. I knew we'd get swept, would miss out on our own pick and the GS pick, and would not be able to get our point guard of the future. But you know what? I think we did pretty good after all. Looking at the schedule, I'll be able to see 16 games this year. I'm pumped for the season.
 
The more I look at this acquisition of Foye, the more I see KOC doing it to put pressure on Hayward & Burks to really work hard this offseason. Because they'll have to compete for minutes next season if they want to start. Marv & Randy aren't going to hand the starting spots to Hayward & Burks easily. Similarly with Favors, he'll have to earn it if he wants to start ahead of Millsap or Jefferson.

I hope they take a big leap this Summer and Good luck to them.
 
Pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post, baby

Possibry. It was a lot of words and not a lot of pictures, so I skimmed to keep my brain from hurting.

For real tho, we're you not projecting mo,Foye,marv,sap,al as the starting lineup? If that's the lineup, I'll rage.
 
Pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post, baby

Yea, he did.

As far as thoughts on your thread, IMO you devalue Harris and overrate the guys brought in somewhat. Foye and the Williams' are all inconsistent streak shooters. Mo probably being the most reliable. However they do represent a substantial overall upgrade over Harris/CJ/Bell and most importantly seem to fit together and with the apparent direction of the team very well. These guys all are at their best spotting up and will get plenty of those opportunities. All three are tough athletic defenders too and when they can't shoot will still contribute. It's not the direction most Jazz fans would choose (chasing a great distributor) but these guys make sense when looking at the package of the three.

I don't see Watson or Tinsley as good depth. These guys are easy to root for and we like them but the reality is both guys are old and have critical weaknesses. IMO Foye has to be the backup point and if he can't do that we have a problem.

The Bigs situation isn't as much of a great situation anymore either. Without a playmaking point it seems that Al will be very necessary to continue to have an offense. It's possible that the young wings will be able to assist Favors in the way he needs but it almost cannot be the same as having that great passing 1. If Derrick is not involved and successful there is a serious risk he is not going to re-sign here. It can all resolve itself still but there is going to be some legitimate anxiety over Favors until he is an actual major factor in some positive results.

Good thread though and I do agree this team is going to be an improvement over last season.
 
(Did we even acquire anyone over the age of 27?)

According to google, both Mo Williams (29) and Randy Foye (28) are.

Chris said:
We're still the youngest team in the league

We were 12th youngest in the league last year at 26.71,
We are as of now (without bell) at 24.31 which would've made us the youngest last year, but I'm not sure how it'll be this year.

Sorry, I was curious about these things, so I looked them up and thought I'd share.

good post
 
Pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post, baby
I don't see Foye starting alongside Mo. Both are spot up shooters. And you duplicate slashing/ball-handling by putting both Hayward and Burks with the 2nd unit. From what I saw in the SL, Burks was handling the ball and initiating plays quite a bit from the 2 spot.

Starting lineup as I see it:

Jefferson
Favors
Ma Williams
Hayward
Mo Williams

That's a well-balanced five. Inside guys in Al and Derrick, outside shooters in the Williams brothers and a slasher in Gordon.

Then you bring in Foye, Burks, Kanter and Millsap with the second unit. Couple different ways to go on the wings. You could go small with Foye/Burks and bring in Watson at PG. Or you leave in Marvin (or have Gordon slide to the 3) for 4-5 mins and then bring back Gordon (or Marvin) when the other one sits. And the same with the bigs: Favors will come back and replace Kanter after 7-8 mins and play at the 5, then Jefferson will come back in for Millsap and Derrick will slide back over to the 4.

Again, you have great balance with the subs: Kanter stays underneath and Millsap uses his great mid-range game. Burks will be the play-maker and can dish to the bigs or toss it back outside to Foye (or the SF) for a 3.
 
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Yea, he did.

As far as thoughts on your thread, IMO you devalue Harris and overrate the guys brought in somewhat.

I don't see Watson or Tinsley as good depth. These guys are easy to root for and we like them but the reality is both guys are old and have critical weaknesses. IMO Foye has to be the backup point and if he can't do that we have a problem.

The Bigs situation isn't as much of a great situation anymore either. Without a playmaking point it seems that Al will be very necessary to continue to have an offense. It's possible that the young wings will be able to assist Favors in the way he needs but it almost cannot be the same as having that great passing 1. If Derrick is not involved and successful there is a serious risk he is not going to re-sign here. It can all resolve itself still but there is going to be some legitimate anxiety over Favors until he is an actual major factor in some positive results.

Good thread though and I do agree this team is going to be an improvement over last season.
I disagree on the assessment of Williams vs. Harris. While Mo is NOT a penetrating, drive and dish PG, he does run a good P&R. And that is what Favors needs. Mo is deadly hitting the open shot off the P&R if it is not defended.

I do agree on Watson and Tinsley. I wouldn't be surprised to see Watson moved at some point. Play Burks and Foye together on the 2nd unit and Burks will initiate with Foye spotting up for 3's, which he excelled at last season.
 
The more I look at this acquisition of Foye, the more I see KOC doing it to put pressure on Hayward & Burks to really work hard this offseason. Because they'll have to compete for minutes next season if they want to start. Marv & Randy aren't going to hand the starting spots to Hayward & Burks easily. Similarly with Favors, he'll have to earn it if he wants to start ahead of Millsap or Jefferson.

I hope they take a big leap this Summer and Good luck to them.


Gordon doesn't go to the bench, I don't see that happening.
 
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Gordon doesn't go to the bench, I don't see that happening.
You have two guys who were just chosen to be on the US Select team, playing with Kyrie Irving, Jeremy Lin, John Wall, Kawhi Leonard, DeJuan Blair, DeMarcus Cousins, DeMar DeRozan, Paul George, Taj Gibson and Klay Thompson. Granted that team also had - for some strange reason - Stiensma and Lance Thomas, but that's pretty good company. Favors and Hayward are the future of the Jazz. They have to start!
 
Mo is absolutely an upgrade over Harris. I cant comprehend people who choose to deny this.
Rest of moves were well done, for what we have. Im excited for the season, should be fun to watch play out.
 
Mo is absolutely an upgrade over Harris. I cant comprehend people who choose to deny this.
Rest of moves were well done, for what we have. Im excited for the season, should be fun to watch play out.

Perhaps if you laid out your case/proof that Mo is better you'd have a better chance at convincing people. Also I see most people saying that Mo is bettar than Harris just not that much better.
 
PG Mo Williams / Jamaal Tinsley / Earl Watson

SG Randy Foye / Alec Burks / Kevin Murphy

SF Marvin Williams / Gordon Hayward / DeMarre Carroll

PF Paul Millsap / Derek Favors / Jeremy Evans

C Al Jefferson / Enes Kanter

This is remarkably meciocre roster. I really do not get the logic to get eliminated in 1st round of playoffs with this roster, instead isn't it goal to settle with youngsters such as Hayward,Favors, Burks and Kanter? If not, why we all excited to have them? For seeing the towels over their shoulders?
 
Some really good points here. Again, I didn't mean to say that that would definitely be our rotation. My point was to list the talent roughly by position just to make a list and see what we have 'on paper.' The idea is that we have the kind of depth that Ty can do all sorts of things with the lineups. Honestly, it's because of the depth factor and Ty's coaching style that I don't care too much about the starting lineups. I'm most excited about the fact that regardless of who's on the floor at any given time, that we'll be playing some solid, competitive basketball.

As an aside, this roster gives us a pretty good litmus test to see how good of a coach Ty really is. In my mind, with this kind of depth, there's no reason we shouldn't be playing at least .600 ball by the end of the season. Where that will land us playoffs-wise in the Western Conference is anybody's guess.
 
PG Mo Williams / Jamaal Tinsley / Earl Watson

SG Randy Foye / Alec Burks / Kevin Murphy

SF Marvin Williams / Gordon Hayward / DeMarre Carroll

PF Paul Millsap / Derek Favors / Jeremy Evans

C Al Jefferson / Enes Kanter

This is remarkably meciocre roster. I really do not get the logic to get eliminated in 1st round of playoffs with this roster, instead isn't it goal to settle with youngsters such as Hayward,Favors, Burks and Kanter? If not, why we all excited to have them? For seeing the towels over their shoulders?

Yes we are deeper and have skill set that we as Jazz fans are not used to seeing. However I think switching Hayward and Favors into the starting lineup improves our team all around. The Four our are future and we need to find out if they have it or not now. This is Hayward and Favors third year. Time to step up boys. Having Williams and Millsap on the second unit will dramtically increase that units scoring. Millsap will beast on the backup PFs.
 
1. On paper the roster is awesome, just can't wait to see all this guys together, though the BigAl situation will be on the air.
2. Mo will be a better leader of this team than Harris and more consistent, which is very important for this team, so Mo is an upgrade over Harris. This guy just have more life in him.
3. Ty will have to step up, a lot of eyes will be on his job.
 
I will take Harris for the first Quarter! But for the next 3 quarters I would prefer to have Mo!
 
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