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Ricky Rubio the Basketball Enigma

Handlogten's Heros

Handlogten's Heros

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He's been here a year and a half... played a lot of minutes... I still don't know how good or bad he is.

I've never been this puzzled on a guy. He shares the floor so much with Ingles and Rudy who clearly impact the defense that I'm not sure how much of a defensive impact he really has. He deflects a lot of balls and there are nights you clearly see the impact... then there are nights he gets blown by and is kinda rough.

The offense is a damned roller coaster... some nights he's Rick Curry other nights he can't shoot and turns it over waaaay too much.

Off the court he is just amazing! Good teammate and better person. Everything basketball related he is just an enigma.
 
He's a good player and he does the small things well, but unfortunately he's bad at some of the biggest things required by modern day perimeter player. I don't trust him to ever be consistent enough for us to compete for a title with him. (unless we have like... 2 other MVP caliber players on the roster and it wouldn't matter what Rubio is doing)

He's extremely hard player to build modern offense for. You can usually live with a PG that either cannot shoot or cannot finish at the rim. It's extremely hard to play with one that cannot do either consistently enough. Just think about it - have you ever watched him take a 3 and thought "Oh sweet, it's Ricky shooting"? Have you ever watched him drive to the rim and thought "Here we go... Ricky's sure to score now". I know this is anecdotal evidence, but the numbers provide so much support for why I and many others feel like this.
 
infection said:
Ditto. I want it to work, but I have no idea if it has, does, is, or will.
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Looking at the numbers only makes it worse too... you can see defenses ignoring him which obviously has an affect... but some advanced touchy feely metrics love him.

Last night... pretty awful... some good assists... turnovers at the end of the game... but then the poke away of the ball from Steph in the corner. How much is that play worth?

I'm amazed at Quin's patience and faith in him... but I'm also worried it may take a toll on his health.
 
stitches said:
He's a good player and he does the small things well, but unfortunately he's bad at some of the biggest things required by modern day perimeter player. I don't trust him to ever be consistent enough for us to compete for a title with him. (unless we have like... 2 other MVP caliber players on the roster and it wouldn't matter what Rubio is doing)

He's extremely hard player to build modern offense for. You can usually live with a PG that either cannot shoot or cannot finish at the rim. It's extremely hard to play with one that cannot do either consistently enough. Just think about it - have you ever watched him take a 3 and thought "Oh sweet, it's Ricky shooting"? Have you ever watched him drive to the rim and thought "Here we go... Ricky's sure to score now". I know this is anecdotal evidence, but the numbers provide so much support for why I and many others feel like this.
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I definitely feel the same way.. then you look at RPM stuff and it shows he's a minor drag on the offense, but is a positive on the defense. So like how positive is he and how negative is he? Do those metrics give too much credit on defense to a guy that is sharing the floor with other great defensive players (for instance DRPM says Kyrie is better on defense than Ricky... I don't really trust that).

I would just like to see DM and our starters with a traditional average PG to have a test case to compare against. Our team is so bipolar... in wins we win by like 15 pts on average... in loses we lose by 13... and I'm sure Ricky is part of the reason for that... but then when he is really good... we've lost games... and when he's been bad... we've won anyway. So it doesn't seem to correlate. The big game in Indiana may be causing the numbers to be really goofy on that.

I think he is a good player... but is he good as in he's a solid rotation player or is he good like... pay the guy 15M a year and he's an average starter?
 
Picture Rubio not as a playmaker that can singlehandedly take over games but as a solidifier. If the team plays like *** he will solidify the bad outcome, if the team is tuned in he will most likely have a good game as well.

So yes we’ll see some improvement towards the end of the season as the Jazz start moving up. Also he’s shown that he’s pretty clutch in big games, a very valuable quality.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I definitely feel the same way.. then you look at RPM stuff and it shows he's a minor drag on the offense, but is a positive on the defense. So like how positive is he and how negative is he? Do those metrics give too much credit on defense to a guy that is sharing the floor with other great defensive players (for instance DRPM says Kyrie is better on defense than Ricky... I don't really trust that).

I would just like to see DM and our starters with a traditional average PG to have a test case to compare against. Our team is so bipolar... in wins we win by like 15 pts on average... in loses we lose by 13... and I'm sure Ricky is part of the reason for that... but then when he is really good... we've lost games... and when he's been bad... we've won anyway. So it doesn't seem to correlate. The big game in Indiana may be causing the numbers to be really goofy on that.

I think he is a good player... but is he good as in he's a solid rotation player or is he good like... pay the guy 15M a year and he's an average starter?
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Ricky has been consistently good defender by the advanced metrics since forever. Even on the horrible Minny teams that were bottom of the league defensively he was ranking very high.

no. 5 last year with the Jazz
no. 11 in 2016-2017 with Minny
no. 2 in 2015-2016 with Minny
no. 1 in 2014-2015 with Minny
no. 2 in 2013-2014 with Minny

(those are dRPM rankings for the PG position)

Ricky is a good defender on his own right, not just as a part of our system. It's never been his defense that I've had problem with. He's a very smart defender and he has size and quickness and very quick hands. IMO it's his offense that has always been the thing that's stopping him from being an elite PG in the league.

BTW don't judge players for getting blown by every now and again. This is the NBA and some of the best athletes and most skilled players in the league play the PG position. It happens to everybody to get blown by every now and again. The good ones minimize the number of instances and execute the defensive scheme so even if it happens they route the opponent toward help.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's been here a year and a half... played a lot of minutes... I still don't know how good or bad he is.

I've never been this puzzled on a guy. He shares the floor so much with Ingles and Rudy who clearly impact the defense that I'm not sure how much of a defensive impact he really has. He deflects a lot of balls and there are nights you clearly see the impact... then there are nights he gets blown by and is kinda rough.

The offense is a damned roller coaster... some nights he's Rick Curry other nights he can't shoot and turns it over waaaay too much.

Off the court he is just amazing! Good teammate and better person. Everything basketball related he is just an enigma.
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on Ricky.
He isn't Ricky curry nearly often enough. But X isn't ready and might never be.

I think more than anything the best way to make the jazz take the next leap is to replace Ricky. Doesn't have to be a great point guard either. Just one that makes the defense worry about them.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
stitches said:
Ricky has been consistently good defender by the advanced metrics since forever. Even on the horrible Minny teams that were bottom of the league defensively he was ranking very high.

no. 5 last year with the Jazz
no. 11 in 2016-2017 with Minny
no. 2 in 2015-2016 with Minny
no. 1 in 2014-2015 with Minny
no. 2 in 2013-2014 with Minny

(those are dRPM rankings for the PG position)

Ricky is a good defender on his own right, not just as a part of our system. It's never been his defense that I've had problem with. He's a very smart defender and he has size and quickness and very quick hands. IMO it's his offense that has always been the thing that's stopping him from being an elite PG in the league.

BTW don't judge players for getting blown by every now and again. This is the NBA and some of the best athletes and most skilled players in the league play the PG position. It happens to everybody to get blown by every now and again. The good ones minimize the number of instances and execute the defensive scheme so even if it happens they route the opponent toward help.
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I agree he is a good defender. How important is good PG defense? How big is the tradeoff on offense. Does the offense look better when Ricky's in because of lack of other options.

I'm ready to go a different way... then he strings together 3-4 decent games and I get reeled back in. there are credible people on both sides of the Ricky debate and they all have great reasons.

I have a person I worked with that would knock complex assignments out of the park sometimes really efficiently... then routine tasks would be garbage... was so tough to trust... thats the real-life version of Ricky I guess.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I agree he is a good defender. How important is good PG defense? How big is the tradeoff on offense. Does the offense look better when Ricky's in because of lack of other options.

I'm ready to go a different way... then he strings together 3-4 decent games and I get reeled back in. there are credible people on both sides of the Ricky debate and they all have great reasons.

I have a person I worked with that would knock complex assignments out of the park sometimes really efficiently... then routine tasks would be garbage... was so tough to trust... thats the real-life version of Ricky I guess.
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IMO it's not very important(compared to other positions and compared to offense). It's probably the position with least importance defensively. You can scheme a lot around not great defensive point guards. IMO offense is much more important for a PG than defense and that's part of the reason I don't like Ricky long-term for the Jazz...

I was in a similar boat with you about Ricky after the end of the last season I was willing to give him a chance to prove that this is the new Ricky... but damn... he started this year just like his whole career has been - inconsistent to put it in the most generous way I can put it. Ultimately, I don't think I would be ever able to trust him long term on the Jazz. No matter how hot he gets I will always know that the next horrific stretch is just around the corner.
 
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We need more offense out of the PG position. Donovan is struggling with efficiency with so many shots a game.
 
I love Rubio the person but we need more out of the PG position. If we had the perfect PF, maybe he would be fine, but I still have my doubts.

My perfect scenario for Ricky would be to use him and his contract to facilitate some bigger trade for a PG. After the season, we decline the $2.1 million option on Neto and bring Rubio back as our backup PG making less than $10 million.
 
One more thing to keep in mind: he improves his performance after the All-Star game on a regular basis.
 
Ricky brings a lot to the table - more than he's given credit for. But the inability to hit open shots is a deal breaker for me. 2 for 12 or 0 for 8 happens way too often . When you shoot like that and play 30mpg it puts so much pressure on the rest of the team . In order to win it usually requires at least one player scoring way over his average (e.g. Jae last night).
 
What we really need is consistent Ricky.
In the month of December his FG% has been: .692, .500, .385, .478, .385, .400, .214, .500, & .000
Meanwhile, his 3P% in December has been: .500, .667, .250, .375, .000, .000, .000, .400, & .000

To make matters worse, he also changes his role depending on how he is feeling/shooting.
In December is FGA were: 13, 10, 13, 23, 13, 5, 14, 10, & 8

I imagine it makes it really hard on the other players and coaching staff to find a rhythm when Ricky has so much fluctuation in role and performance.
 
Ricky has shown us what he is since the start of his career, indicating that he isn’t any kind of enigma.
 
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