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Seems to me that the refs don't know the rules. Why don't they enforce this one?

N

northeast

Well-Known Member
"Section XI-Swinging of Elbows
A player shall not be allowed excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the elbows in a swinging motion (no contact) when a defensive player is nearby and the offensive player has the ball.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the side-line, nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended. If the violation occurs on a throw-in, the game clock shall not be started."

I've seen this happen hundreds of times, and never once seen the ref make this as call as it is prescribed by the official rules.
 
I saw this called on Malone once. Although that time they called a foul. He got a rebound and held the ball like a football in one arm and swung the other around really hard. No one was anywhere nearby but the ref (literally no one within 10 feet of him) and the ref called a foul on him.
 
So the ref called it wrong, according to the rules as they are written.

First off, if no one was near him, it should have been a no call.

Second, if someone was near him, it could have been ruled a lose of possession, but rules do not dictate a foul be called.
Maybe the ref thought there was contact, but if there was not, the call was incorrect.
I could understand technical foul, but not a regular foul, but the most correct call according to the written rules is change of possession, no foul.

On the other hand, it is odd for the ref to call this on one occasion , when it is almost never called.
If this were enforced, that center for Orlando would lose possession multiple times per game.
 
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Seems to me the rule only applies if no contact is made. If contact is made then it could be upgraded to a foul.
 
northeast said:
So the ref called it wrong, according to the rules as they are written.

First off, if no one was near him, it should have been a no call.

Second, if someone was near him, it could have been ruled a lose of possession, but rules do not dictate a foul be called.
Maybe the ref thought there was contact, but if there was not, the call was incorrect.
I could understand technical foul, but not a regular foul, but the most correct call according to the written rules is change of possession, no foul.

On the other hand, it is odd for the ref to call this on one occasion , when it is almost never called.
If this were enforced, that center for Orlando would lose possession multiple times per game.
Click to expand...

It was a bad call, but in this game I seem to remember Malone had already 2 fouls for swinging his elbows. It really felt like the ref was making a point. I just found it interesting that someone was called on a play similar to what is outlined in the rule. I have never seen this rule applied the way it is written at all.
 
Dwight Howard is in foul trouble tonight , and not getting away with as much aggressiveness as he usually does.
 
northeast said:
"Section XI-Swinging of Elbows
A player shall not be allowed excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the elbows in a swinging motion (no contact) when a defensive player is nearby and the offensive player has the ball.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the side-line, nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended. If the violation occurs on a throw-in, the game clock shall not be started."

I've seen this happen hundreds of times, and never once seen the ref make this as call as it is prescribed by the official rules.
Click to expand...

That's the key. You're allowed (and generally taught) to have elbows out to secure a rebound. You can even swing them to avoid contact from defenders so long as it's not the above, vigorous and excessive. You try to get face to face with a guy who just rebounded a ball, and you get an elbow in the face when he spins, I'd call a foul on you. I think Malone got a foul called on him when he tore Nash up that one time, but I thought it was a foul on Nash.
 
Malone got some calls against him other players didn't, because he got a reputation for hurting people with his elbows and knees.

Some other players get away with MORE elbows and punching , like Howard, because they don't have that reputation for some reason. I guess Malone really did hurt some people on some occasions, but that is hardly unique in the NBA.

I could imagine Howard literally killing someone on the court. I wonder how that would effect ratings.
 
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