What's new

The horror of drafting in the 6-10 range

We all know the draft reality: there are 5 certain future stars in the 2014 draft and the talent drops sharply afterwards. And, since the Jazz seem to be much more likely to draft in the dreaded 6-10 range, they will waste an once-in-generation opportunity to get a star and will be doomed to the years of playoff mediocrity. And that makes me sad.

But then I look at our current team and see that we ALREADY have three top-5 picks: Williams, Favors and Kanter … and none of them is setting the world on fire. Actually, they pretty much play on the level of Hayward (9th pick), Burks (12th) and Burke (8th). And then I see the teams contending right now on the shoulders of the players picked way outside of top-5, such as Indiana. Could it be that the so-called experts are routinely wrong in evaluating the potential of the players in the draft?

With that in mind I decided to look at the draft history since the 2006 draft (the first draft when they went to the current age limits of 19) up until the 2012 draft. Additionally, I decided to separate the first picks into a separate category since while a team record can be a reasonable guarantee of drafting in the 2-5 range, getting the first pick still depends much more on blind luck than on a dedicated tanking tanking (even the shameless Sixers cannot reasonably expect getting the first pick this year).

So I counted the players who either already became stars or are well underway (and unquestionably will be there in a couple of years).

For the 2-5 picks in 7 drafts we have Aldridge (2), Durant (2), Horford (3), Westbrook (4), Love (5), Harden (3), and Cousins (5). That yields the 25% chance of getting a star (7 out of 28). For the 6-10 picks we have Roy (6), Noah (9), Brook Lopez (10), Curry (7), DeRozan (9), George (10), Lillard (6), and Drummond (9), with the 23% chance of getting a star. And drafting first gives the team 71% chance to draft the future star (Rose, Griffin, Wall, Irving, Davis).

The conclusions:

1. If you do not have the first pick you probably are not going to get a star. That will be the most likely outcome for the Utah Jazz, unfortunately.

2. The Jazz fans should calm down and stop agonizing over “winning meaningless games”: statistically, there is pretty much no difference in the chances to draft a star with the 4th pick vs 7th pick. So let our young players (and even evil Corbin) enjoy they hard-fought wins and gain valuable experience.

3. Still, you do not want to drop below the 10th pick: in the last 7 seasons no stars were drafted with the picks in the 11-15 range.
 
Yeah ok but "stars" are not created equal.


Stars in the first group are wayyy better than stars in the second group (with the exception of Paul George).
 
Yeah ok but "stars" are not created equal.


Stars in the first group are wayyy better than stars in the second group (with the exception of Paul George).

I think curry, lillard, drummond and possibly roy sans injuries (who really knows), are all within grasp of the top group (minus durant obviously). Saying the others are wayyy better is a bit of an overstatement.
 
I think curry, lillard, drummond and possibly roy sans injuries (who really knows), are all within grasp of the top group (minus durant obviously). Saying the others are wayyy better is a bit of an overstatement.

Harden and Westbrook??

Drummond is not there yet. Roy dropped because of his injury concen pre draft, he could have easily gone in the top group without injury. Minny passed on Curry cos he refused to work out for them so again could have gone top 5.
 
Are there five CERTAIN future stars in the this draft?

Many players have been drafted on potential before and not developed. Many have floundered because they are "tweeners" - i.e. PF's with the size of a SF or a SG in a PG's body. We'll see. Already I'm leaning towards this being the most over-hyped draft in NBA history.
 
Harden and Westbrook??

Drummond is not there yet. Roy dropped because of his injury concen pre draft, he could have easily gone in the top group without injury. Minny passed on Curry cos he refused to work out for them so again could have gone top 5.

I don't think drummond is too far off the big men in the top range, considering his age and defense. my god he is a bad free throw shooter though.

I guess my personal evaluation of harden and westbrook must be different to yours, with their flaws taken into account i wouldn't consider them wayyy better than other players mentioned there. Not to say they aren't better, but if i missed out on harden and landed lillard for example i wouldn't be too upset (at this stage of his career)

Also, as a sidenote, Derozan is having a nice season. damn.
 
This is not an ordinary draft. This is the Lebron, Carmelo, Darko 2.0 draft. This season could very well determine the league's future. Good thing the Jazz have no expectations for a title.
 
5 certain stars?

I would say at max there are three certain stars, Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

After that, no one is certain though and it becomes a normal draft again.
 
Agreed. 5 is a huge stretch. There could be 5, but the other 2 could easily come from later in the draft. That's why I love the draft.
 
We all know the draft reality: there are 5 certain future stars in the 2014 draft and the talent drops sharply afterwards. And, since the Jazz seem to be much more likely to draft in the dreaded 6-10 range, they will waste an once-in-generation opportunity to get a star and will be doomed to the years of playoff mediocrity. And that makes me sad.

But then I look at our current team and see that we ALREADY have three top-5 picks: Williams, Favors and Kanter … and none of them is setting the world on fire. Actually, they pretty much play on the level of Hayward (9th pick), Burks (12th) and Burke (8th). And then I see the teams contending right now on the shoulders of the players picked way outside of top-5, such as Indiana. Could it be that the so-called experts are routinely wrong in evaluating the potential of the players in the draft?

With that in mind I decided to look at the draft history since the 2006 draft (the first draft when they went to the current age limits of 19) up until the 2012 draft. Additionally, I decided to separate the first picks into a separate category since while a team record can be a reasonable guarantee of drafting in the 2-5 range, getting the first pick still depends much more on blind luck than on a dedicated tanking tanking (even the shameless Sixers cannot reasonably expect getting the first pick this year).

So I counted the players who either already became stars or are well underway (and unquestionably will be there in a couple of years).

For the 2-5 picks in 7 drafts we have Aldridge (2), Durant (2), Horford (3), Westbrook (4), Love (5), Harden (3), and Cousins (5). That yields the 25% chance of getting a star (7 out of 28). For the 6-10 picks we have Roy (6), Noah (9), Brook Lopez (10), Curry (7), DeRozan (9), George (10), Lillard (6), and Drummond (9), with the 23% chance of getting a star. And drafting first gives the team 71% chance to draft the future star (Rose, Griffin, Wall, Irving, Davis).

The conclusions:

1.If you do not have the first pick you probably are not going to get a star. That will be the most likely outcome for the Utah Jazz, unfortunately.

2.The Jazz fans should calm down and stop agonizing over “winning meaningless games”: statistically, there is pretty much no difference in the chances to draft a star with the 4th pick vs 7th pick. So let our young players (and even evil Corbin) enjoy they hard-fought wins and gain valuable experience.

3.Still, you do not want to drop below the 10th pick: in the last 7 seasons no stars were drafted with the picks in the 11-15 range.

So my question to you OP..... would you rather have the 4th pick or the 7th?
 
So my question to you OP..... would you rather have the 4th pick or the 7th?
I would much ather have the 7th pick that was hard earned, with our players fighting for the wins every game and growing in the process then the 4th pick obtained by deliberate tanking, fantom injuries and wink-wink communications from the front office to the team players.
 
I would much ather have the 7th pick that was hard earned, with our players fighting for the wins every game and growing in the process then the 4th pick obtained by deliberate tanking, fantom injuries and wink-wink communications from the front office to the team players.

What if they fought hard every game and also developed as much as possible and got the 4th pick. Would you like that?
 
5 certain stars?

I would say at max there are three certain stars, Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid.

After that, no one is certain though and it becomes a normal draft again.
But what makes those three certain stars? Looking back, the common predictions about the future of the players in the draft proved to be wrong more often than right. We do not have to go far but our own Marvin, who received serious considerations as a first pick and was drafted second by the Hawks ahead of Deron and Paul despite the Hawks beeing in the dire need desperately needing a PG.
 
But what makes those three certain stars? Looking back, the common predictions about the future of the players in the draft proved to be wrong more often than right. We do not have to go far but our own Marvin, who received serious considerations as a first pick and was drafted second by the Hawks ahead of Deron and Paul despite the Hawks beeing in the dire need desperately needing a PG.

Parker is a mega scorer. Pretty confident he will be a very good scorer from Day-1. Will either be a size mismatch at the 3, or a speed mismatch at the 4.

Embiid is crazy advanced for his years put in. Crazy athletic and quick for his size. Great size. Great touch. Great IQ. Only problem is his back?

Wiggins is hyper athletic, can shoot the 3, is a great defender. Only question is his handle in the half-court.
 
Are there five CERTAIN future stars in the this draft?

Many players have been drafted on potential before and not developed. Many have floundered because they are "tweeners" - i.e. PF's with the size of a SF or a SG in a PG's body. We'll see. Already I'm leaning towards this being the most over-hyped draft in NBA history.

Yep. I stopped reading after his first sentence. If he's going post jibberish like that in his first sentence, no possible way it is worth wasting 60 seconds of my life reading the rest.
 
I would much ather have the 7th pick that was hard earned, with our players fighting for the wins every game and growing in the process then the 4th pick obtained by deliberate tanking, fantom injuries and wink-wink communications from the front office to the team players.

So your own numbers showed that there is a better chance at a star in the top 4 picks. Add in the fact that this draft is even more likely to have stars in the top 4..... and you want the jazz to risk thier future because of pride?

I would rather swallow my pride and increase my chance at landing a star and making my team better in the long run, hut hey whatever floats your boat bro
 
Parker is a mega scorer. Pretty confident he will be a very good scorer from Day-1. Will either be a size mismatch at the 3, or a speed mismatch at the 4.

Embiid is crazy advanced for his years put in. Crazy athletic and quick for his size. Great size. Great touch. Great IQ. Only problem is his back?

Wiggins is hyper athletic, can shoot the 3, is a great defender. Only question is his handle in the half-court.

This.
Add in exum, who the experts are drooling over as well
 
I would much ather have the 7th pick that was hard earned, with our players fighting for the wins every game and growing in the process then the 4th pick obtained by deliberate tanking, fantom injuries and wink-wink communications from the front office to the team players.

Teams don't tank to get the 4th or 7th pick. They tank for the opportunity to struck gold and get a top 3 pick, where, according to your own numbers, there is the highest probability of finding a star. We are not finishing in the bottom 3 in the standings so more ping pong balls wouldn't hurt. BTW, we are not tanking as the 76ers are. We are just bad, don't play hard and have a coach named Corbin.
 
Teams don't tank to get the 4th or 7th pick. They tank for the opportunity to struck gold and get a top 3 pick, where, according to your own numbers, there is the highest probability of finding a star. We are not finishing in the bottom 3 in the standings so more ping pong balls wouldn't hurt. BTW, we are not tanking as the 76ers are. We are just bad, don't play hard and have a coach named Corbin.

Yup. Since 1990, if you don't have Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, LeBron, Kobe or Duncan, you aren't winning a title. Crazy. 4 of those 6 were #1 picks. One was a #3, and one was the first HS ever taken (i.e., if that draft was redone today, not knowing their futures, Kobe would go #1, Iverson #2).

That means that 5 of the 6 were #1 picks, and the only other one (Jordan) was taken behind one of those #1 picks.

It is literally impossible to win a title in the NBA. The sad thing is, only SA was smart enough to realize that and do everything they could to get Duncan.

It's why so many teams are tanking this year. There is another one of "those" players in this draft. LA, Boston, Philly all realize that the only way to win a title is to get that guy. The next shot NBA teams will have at adding a player who can win a title after this year is 2017 (excluding whoever gets LeBron).

Sad.
 
Back
Top