The Memo

[babe]

Gotta give this to the Russians: their social media game is still pretty tight.

View attachment 5598

As I gauge it with very little actual knowledge, really, he does little to divide the folks....does not call his detractors "deplorables" in public, does few ideological rants along Western lines of philosophical thought....like Karl Marx.... and speaks from the perspective, always, of Russian national interests. I hear he is actually a Christian, and of a classical renaissance sort of mindset. Probably a lot of Russians would find it credible that his leadership is in their interest.....

But the lack of outspoken opposition does make me doubt the reality of the view I see.

 

[Red]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...on-evidence-collusion-obstruction-adam-schiff

"Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, said Wednesday that the panel had seen an “abundance” of evidence of collusion with Russia and obstruction by Donald Trump’s campaign and administration that is not yet public.

Speaking to reporters in Washington, Schiff said a lot of information was already in the public domain that pointed to extensive contacts between the Trump campaign team and the Kremlin, and later efforts by the Trump entourage to cover up those contacts. But Schiff said there was much more to come out.

He said: “There is certainly an abundance of non-public information that we’ve gathered in the investigation. And I think some of that non-public evidence is evidence on the issue of collusion and some … on the issue of obstruction.”

Trump has repeatedly asserted that there has been no collusion and no obstruction involving him or his team during the 2016 presidential election or since he took the White House. Schiff, from California, added on Wednesday that the intelligence committee had also seen evidence pointing towards money laundering involving Trump’s circle, but had been hindered by the partisan deadlock that has paralysed its investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election.


He said: “It is a tried and true maxim. As a former prosecutor, you follow the money. We have not been able to adequately follow the money. And I think the allegations on money laundering are credible enough that we ought to, in the exercise of due diligence, see if this was one of the other vectors of the Russian active measures campaign.”

He added: “We know that in other places they use money laundering as a way of entangling people, as a way of compromising people. To me that is far more potentially compromising than any salacious video would be.”

 

[Red]

Or that the Dems purposely filled their memo with classified info so that Trump would not be able to release it.

Would this be the same President who had absolutely no problem disclosing highly classified info with the Russian ambassador and the Russian foreign minister, in the Oval Office no less, with a Russian photographer filming it no less, one day after Comey was fired? Was that the same "sensitive to the importance of classified information" President??

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/15/5285...ormation-to-russians-during-white-house-visit

Is this the same "sensitive to classified info" President we're talking about here??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump's_disclosures_of_classified_information

 

[babe]

Schiff gives us no evidence, money trail or communication. Not even one "Dobri din". We know there is a huge money trail from Russia to Hillary.

Really, Red, as determined as you and others are to deny known facts I just have to say BS on this Red Scare. If you're a "traditional" American pro-Brit globalist like Armand Hammer, you can make billions off doing business with the Russians, and nobody gives a Schiff.

 

[Red]

Schiff gives us no evidence, money trail or communication. Not even one "Dobri din". We know there is a huge money trail from Russia to Hillary.

Really, Red, as determined as you and others are to deny known facts I just have to say BS on this Red Scare. If you're a "traditional" American pro-Brit globalist like Armand Hammer, you can make billions off doing business with the Russians, and nobody gives a Schiff.

We have, since after 9/11 lost many citizen warriors and carreer warriors in foreign lands. Yet some Americans will not even come to the defense of their nation when that nation is attacked by way of interference in our democratic institutions right here. Some Americans actually seem to be fine when a mafia state, for that is what Putin, Russian inteliience services, and Russian mobsters have forged, a mafia state, assaults our sovereignty as a nation. I do not think such Americans deserved to be seen as American patriots. They support an attack on our sovereignty by a mafia state, and an assault on our Constitution by our President. Shame on such "Americans"......

 

[Gameface]

Schiff gives us no evidence, money trail or communication. Not even one "Dobri din". We know there is a huge money trail from Russia to Hillary.

Really, Red, as determined as you and others are to deny known facts I just have to say BS on this Red Scare. If you're a "traditional" American pro-Brit globalist like Armand Hammer, you can make billions off doing business with the Russians, and nobody gives a Schiff.

So investigate and prosecute Hillary. One doesn't cancel out the other. Why is "Hillary" a defense against the the accusations against Trump and Russia? How does that make any sense? How can you resort to that line of argument and think that you are making a valid point? I'd suggest that you can't. You are making an argument you know is invalid. You are intentionally being intellectually dishonest in this discussion. That or you truly are delusional.

 

[babe]

We have, since after 9/11 lost many citizen warriors and carrier warriors in foreign lands. Yet some Americans will not even come to the defense of their nation when that nation is attacked by way of interference in our democratic institutions right here. Some Americans actually seem to be fine when a mafia state, for that is what Putin, Russian inteliience services, and Russian mobsters have forged, a mafia state, assaults our sovereignty as a nation. I do not think such Americans deserved to be seen as American patriots. They support an attack on our sovereignty by a mafia state, and an assault on our Constitution by our President. Shame on such "Americans"......

I don't think I've ever seen such a disingenuous, dishonest assertion even our lying oligarch-owned press..... but this is the practically unanimous voice of American "leadership". I think it ranks right up there with "Remember the Maine", the hysteria that justified American aggression into Cuba and the Philippines in 1898. Yes a ship was blown up in Cuban waters, but there's a serious question as to who did it or why. But in today's hysteria, we're not far from locking up anyone who doubts what we're being told.

Peter Schiff is not exactly on the staff of the FBI, or Mueller's collusion team. A lot of the top brass in our various Federal agencies from the days of George HW Bush on down are known and even proudly boasting their fond connections with various British interests. And the evidence now public that implicates this "deep state" sort of globalist/UN governance idealism has driven them to absolute total global war in preference to being further investigated.

We don't much care to be critical of British influence in our "democracy". We're quite comfortable with that. Many of us are "British" in some ancestral sense or cultural sense. I know a lot of people who love British lore and culture who call themselves "anglophiles" and such.

But the fact remains, the Brit elites.... financial, political or cultural.... are quite happy with their Queen and see no reason for our stupid US Constitution. I'd think a proud Irishman would be open to see that.

 

[babe]

So investigate and prosecute Hillary. One doesn't cancel out the other. Why is "Hillary" a defense against the the accusations against Trump and Russia? How does that make any sense? How can you resort to that line of argument and think that you are making a valid point? I'd suggest that you can't. You are making an argument you know is invalid. You are intentionally being intellectually dishonest in this discussion. That or you truly are delusional.

Trump has not pushed the Hillary investigation. I don't know why not, except I do know Jeff Sessions absolutely ruled out that line of enquiry from the gitgo of his first visit with Congress as AG. Trump during the campaign literally told her to her face on national TV that she'd go to jail for her crimes.... but that was politics, playing the American people for votes.

I do not make the assertion that one cancels out the other. I agree with you that we should investigate and prosecute actual crime or actual betrayal of our Constitutional principles of governance. Sorry, but that would probably put most of our politicians and elitist political pushers for global governance in jail, and I don't think Americans are really all that big on principle. So I'll settle for rooting out a few of the worst offenders and voting them outta office.

I think Trump realizes that our political division is a huge issue, and I think he's willing to work with what is. I think the push for Red Scare hysteria is just gonna get us in a big war with people who would work with us around the world even while seeking their own interests quite astutely. We just need to be smarter.

We will have global cooperative sorts of things.... we do have a large amount of global governance already. We do need to touch base with our founding principles for human rights and limited government and move those principles up into the global realm quite a bit. We could live with that line of action, without the damn wars.

 

[Gameface]

Do you think they don't pursue Hillary on that stuff because they don't actually have a winnable case (distinction here between winnable case and actual wrongdoing)?

What is the fear of globalism? Is the idea that once we get a global governmental body they'll spring their trap and enslave humanity? Like that's the goal, ultimately?

Wouldn't world unity be the most certain way to end the damn wars?

 

[babe]

I don't think anyone got the point about my reference to former MI6 head Dearlove above. Of course, he only did what he was told.... ostensibly by Blair the PM so far as we can possibly know.... but even folks like Blair are under pressure from people around him, and the general class of influential sorts of folks who make a difference politically every day.....

The false report he shoveled on down to us, which our "intelligence" crew believed, got us into war with Iraq and cost us, according to Trump's figures, $7 Trillion and all the American casualties that came from it, including my friend Bryan Wilson.

 

[Gameface]

Do you mean Theresa May?

 

[babe]

Do you think they don't pursue Hillary on that stuff because they don't actually have a winnable case (distinction here between winnable case and actual wrongdoing)?

What is the fear of globalism? Is the idea that once we get a global governmental body they'll spring their trap and enslave humanity? Like that's the goal, ultimately?

Wouldn't world unity be the most certain way to end the damn wars?

read the post above yours... two above I think.

The way to a better world is through the promotion of human rights and limited government that is actually representative of and accountable to the public. Not through fascism.

We have failed to spread these ideas because, in my conspiratorial view of British influence around the world, of the invention of Marxism on the payroll of some Brit elites who paid Marx to write his crap, and who then paid various intellectuals to promote it, and who later paid to get Lenin back to Russia to sorta edge out Trotsky and establish a Russian bastion of internationally-manipulated Marxist populism. The whole idea was to run American principles of government off the map. A "false flag" for human hope.

But no, I think we need international spread of ideas essential to our human rights and democratic elected governance.

Well nice talking to you Bullet and Red. I gotta go do my chores.

 

[babe]

Do you mean Theresa May?

Blair was PM when we went with the Brits for the Iraq war. May is the current PM. Blair got a bad press with the Chilcot report later on for his part in it.

 

[babe]

Trump saw prosecution of Hillary as too divisive, and he knows he needs to gain some unity or he can't do stuff.

 

[Gameface]

Trump knows stuff? That's a surprise. And based on stuff he knows he is cultivating unity for the greater good? That seems to fly in the face of all observable facts.

 

[Harambe]

Trump saw prosecution of Hillary as too divisive, and he knows he needs to gain some unity or he can't do stuff.

It's more like whatever comes out in Hilary's trial will be used against donnie at during his trial.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Would this be the same President who had absolutely no problem disclosing highly classified info with the Russian ambassador and the Russian foreign minister, in the Oval Office no less, with a Russian photographer filming it no less, one day after Comey was fired? Was that the same "sensitive to the importance of classified information" President??

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/15/5285...ormation-to-russians-during-white-house-visit

Is this the same "sensitive to classified info" President we're talking about here??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump's_disclosures_of_classified_information

I think you're probably a good guy, but you're so far off the rails that you are making yourself miserable. Step outside of the anti-Trump echo chamber you've locked yourself in. The world is a pretty good place.

 

[Red]

I believe the claim that the Dems want Trump to refuse to declassify and release their memo is based on the effort to say the Dems don't have a case, that the whole "Russia thing" is exactly what Trump says it is. But here's the thing, the Dems know the Nunes Memo is simply part of an effort to discredit the Russian investigation. On one level, partisan is partisan regardless of which party, but in this instance, in relation to the truth, the Republicans are choosing to put party above country and aid Trump's obstruction of justice.

The Dems are not going to bs the narrative when they know the Nunes narrative is the embodiment of bs.

Suggesting that it's all a plot, a clever strategy by the Dems, rather then an effort to provide the context that will reveal the bs nature of the Nunes Memo, is an interpretation I would expect from InfoWars, or Hannity, or Breitbart. It is not credible. Trump has been saying all along that the Dems are only seeking to overturn their electoral embarrassment, and, especially of late, (but Nunes himself from very early on), the Republicans have been pushing this narrative that attempts to make the Dems look like they are trying to pull something with this Russian investigation.

The Nunes Memo, and the suggestion that the Democratic Memo is designed to be rejected, are both bs personified.

And the best part, right now, is that Mueller knows all this. Adam Schiff is not happy that the FBI is redacting anything not already in the public record from his memo. But Trump never even gave the FBI that option for Nunes Memo. The whole excercise by Trump and Nunes is transparently obstruction of its own kind. An effort to protect the President. Trump has demonstrated total disregard for the Constitution by attempting to make the Justice Department loyal to his person, and Nunes and others are working overtime to make a Republican controlled Congress assist Trump's disregard for our Constitutuon.

In the midst of that, the Democrats don't want to correct the deceptive record of the Nunes Memo? I don't think so. I don't think so at all.

I don't buy into Hannity league theories. Let's get on with it. Mueller will be doing just that in due time. Unless Trump commits further obstruction by shutting Mueller down.

As for the world, it's a great place. And so is my country. And I'll defend my country and its Constitution. Sometimes you have to take a stand. At this stage of my life, I simply would never have guessed it would be of this nature. But so it is. Nobody should sleepwalk through that portion of history that is theirs to live. I have no intention of doing so.

 

[Red]

I think you're probably a good guy, but you're so far off the rails that you are making yourself miserable. Step outside of the anti-Trump echo chamber you've locked yourself in. The world is a pretty good place.

And I think you're probably a pretty nice guy too. I will not forget that you welcomed me to this forum. But, understand, while I am saddened by what Trump has meant for my country, I've really never been more alive, in the sense of understanding I was witnessing one of the key moments in the history of my country. I found, and I'm not so arrogant as to think this applies here, my voice again. You don't know me personally. But, I can safely assure you I am a good guy. And I would not miss this history for anything. I am near enough to the end, that I do worry I won't live to see some resolution to this chapter in my nation's history, and this world's history. But it put my voice to a purpose, in a manner I could not have predicted, and using an education I now appreciate more then at any other point in my life. I'm not miserable. I'm more alive then I've been in years. For a little while more.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

And I think you're probably a pretty nice guy too. I will not forget that you welcomed me to this forum. But, understand, while I am saddened by what Trump has meant for my country, I've really never been more alive, in the sense of understanding I was witnessing one of the key moments in the history of my country. I found, and I'm not so arrogant as to think this applies here, my voice again. You don't know me personally. But, I can safely assure you I am a good guy. And I would not miss this history for anything. I am near enough to the end, that I do worry I won't live to see some resolution to this chapter in my nation's history, and this world's history. But it put my voice to a purpose, in a manner I could not have predicted, and using an education I now appreciate more then at any other point in my life. I'm not miserable. I'm more alive then I've been in years. For a little while more.

Okay. I guess the Trump presidency has a silver lining for you. Nice to hear.