yet another stupid death in children gun related accident...yes, in USA of course.

[Hantlers]

Ever had someone show up at your house without telling you they coming first?

I don't think you understand. I live in the middle of nowhere. Closest "neighbor" lives half a mile away, and it's my 92 year old grandma. People out here don't just drop by, they let you know.

So no, people that are here to talk/visit don't just drop by without letting us know.

 

[♪alt13]

Honest question for you and others.

What do you think the relative odds are of:
1. Somebody breaking into your house to steal something necessitating the use or threat of deadly force via a gun
2. An accidental discharge of a gun causing death or injury

I'm sure there are statistics on this somewhere.

Personally, I've never met anyone in my circle of acquaintances who ever had to fire or threaten to use a gun to protect their person or belongings.

I've personally known three people who have had an accidental gun discharge in their house, fortunately none with deadly outcomes.

I understand the desire to protect one's self, but I see it as a matter of relative risk. Both the above are low probability events, but I'm guessing accidental discharges occur with a significantly higher frequency than successful defenses of persons or property.

This is an empirical question, however, not one of ideology.

My own experience

1. When I was younger(before I had kids) me and my old lady rented a home. I worked quite a bit so she was the one that put it all together. The first week we were there at about 2 in the morning I awoke to a man opening our bedroom door. He passed up the TV, playstation, her purse, and everything else of value we had. He went straight to the bedroom. Luckily I watched a little too much Unsolved Mysteries as a child and I might be a hair paranoid. I was sleeping next to the best weapon I had at the time, a shovel. I reached for it, bounded from my bed, growled something I cannot remember, and charged. The man bolted out the way he came in.

I will never know for sure what his intentions were. I don't know if he saw something or someone that he wanted. I don't know if he realized that a man that was willing to fight lived there. I can be pretty sure though that if I wasn't there with a shovel it would have ended differently. Now maybe you would argue that shovels offer sufficient protection but I highly doubt that she would have been able to stop him with just a shovel.

2. I have never ever ever had a gun accidentally discharge in my home or anywhere else. I don't know anyone that has.

Statistically speaking

A quick google search brought up this article from Newsweek. I have chosen to link to it because it is from someone that seems to be at least leaning towards gun control. He points out that the estimates for how often a gun is used in defense depends on who you ask. Gun control advocates would say about 100,000 times/year and conservatives would say 2 million.

Even if we take the low estimate of 100,000 the argument that you are more likely to accidentally shoot someone than you are to use it for protection falls flat on its face. The Law Center to prevent gun violence claims that "In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people".

If you want to advocate for gun control than the likelihood of accidental shootings vs self defense is not the argument you should be using.

 

[fishonjazz]

He points out that the estimates for how often a gun is used in defense depends on who you ask. Gun control advocates would say about 100,000 times/year and conservatives would say 2 million.

Wait a minute.
Are they including all the times each year that gun owners are defending themselves from squirrels, rabbits, deer and such?

 

[Hantlers]

Wait a minute.
Are they including all the times each year that gun owners are defending themselves from squirrels, rabbits, deer and such?

That number would need to be much, much higher.

 

[fishonjazz]

That number would need to be much, much higher.

I know. I was just funnin

 

[One Brow]

A Harvard peer reviewed study. No biggie.

Link had "Page not found".

Gun control is more prevalent in states with a higher population density, and so is crime. That doesn't mean gun control and crime are related, you have to remove the statistical effect of population density first.

After looking into this on and off, for years, the greatest single factor in the crime seems to be the proportion of young males in the population. Gun prevalence and gun control have almost no effect, in either direction. Guns do raise the stakes, by making both crimes and crime defense more deadly.

 

[One Brow]

My own experience

1. When I was younger(before I had kids) me and my old lady rented a home. I worked quite a bit so she was the one that put it all together. The first week we were there at about 2 in the morning I awoke to a man opening our bedroom door. He passed up the TV, playstation, her purse, and everything else of value we had. He went straight to the bedroom. Luckily I watched a little too much Unsolved Mysteries as a child and I might be a hair paranoid. I was sleeping next to the best weapon I had at the time, a shovel. I reached for it, bounded from my bed, growled something I cannot remember, and charged. The man bolted out the way he came in.

I will never know for sure what his intentions were. I don't know if he saw something or someone that he wanted. I don't know if he realized that a man that was willing to fight lived there. I can be pretty sure though that if I wasn't there with a shovel it would have ended differently. Now maybe you would argue that shovels offer sufficient protection but I highly doubt that she would have been able to stop him with just a shovel.

2. I have never ever ever had a gun accidentally discharge in my home or anywhere else. I don't know anyone that has.

Statistically speaking

A quick google search brought up this article from Newsweek. I have chosen to link to it because it is from someone that seems to be at least leaning towards gun control. He points out that the estimates for how often a gun is used in defense depends on who you ask. Gun control advocates would say about 100,000 times/year and conservatives would say 2 million.

Even if we take the low estimate of 100,000 the argument that you are more likely to accidentally shoot someone than you are to use it for protection falls flat on its face. The Law Center to prevent gun violence claims that "In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people".

If you want to advocate for gun control than the likelihood of accidental shootings vs self defense is not the argument you should be using.

That's cooking the books just a little, since you are comparing accidental deaths (not all shootings) and ignoring the increased lethality in cases of suicide and domestic violence on the one hand, and comparing that to every single crime prevented, even the non-violent crimes.

 

[♪alt13]

That's cooking the books just a little, since you are comparing accidental deaths (not all shootings) and ignoring the increased lethality in cases of suicide and domestic violence on the one hand, and comparing that to every single crime prevented, even the non-violent crimes.

My post is a response to a specific question raised by jimmyeatjazz. It relates to his post. He framed the question not I. My final line "If you want to advocate for gun control than the likelihood of accidental shootings vs self defense is not the argument you should be using." I think shows that I was addressing his post rather than the overall merits of gun control.
.

Honest question for you and others.

What do you think the relative odds are of:
1. Somebody breaking into your house to steal something necessitating the use or threat of deadly force via a gun
2. An accidental discharge of a gun causing death or injury

I'm sure there are statistics on this somewhere.

Personally, I've never met anyone in my circle of acquaintances who ever had to fire or threaten to use a gun to protect their person or belongings.

I've personally known three people who have had an accidental gun discharge in their house, fortunately none with deadly outcomes.

I understand the desire to protect one's self, but I see it as a matter of relative risk. Both the above are low probability events, but I'm guessing accidental discharges occur with a significantly higher frequency than successful defenses of persons or property.

This is an empirical question, however, not one of ideology.

Edit: I could not find statistics on accidental shootings causing injury but I think we can extrapolate an approximate by looking at the number of deaths. If 50% of people who are accidentally shot die than the number of deaths and injuries would be around 1200.

25%=2400
10%=6000

 

[Dumb Bloke]

I have three fire extinguishers in my house...yet I've never had a house fire, nor have I known anyone who's had a house fire, and I see stories in the paper about once every couple years about someone whose house burned down.


I'd like to see some actual stats, but I imagine the anti-gun crowd think there are 100 deaths/injuries due to accidental shootings compared to every one time a gun protected anyone. My guess is that accidental shootings are more rare than people protecting themselves with a gun.

The oft quoted "a gun in the house is more likely to kill a family member than an intruder" is counting suicides and domestic violence assaults.

We should require a gun in every home like we require smoke and CO monitors. That would solve 99.9% of our crime problems.

 

[Beer]

We should require a gun in every home like we require smoke and CO monitors. That would solve 99.9% of our crime problems.

You can't honestly believe that.

 

[nightmare3983]

We should require a gun in every home like we require smoke and CO monitors. That would solve 99.9% of our crime problems.

You can't honestly believe that.

You can't honestly believe that a troll such as Dumb Bloke honestly believes that.

 

[Dumb Bloke]

You can't honestly believe that.

I like stats. The country with the highest gun density has basically no crime. Switzerland requires every man to serve in the army and own guns. Guess there imprisonment rate for violent crimes?