If you think any politician is trustworthy you should probably be tested for a mental handicap.
Sanders starting to kick some HC... whatever
- Thread starter bjwsan
- Start date
If you think any politician is trustworthy you should probably be tested for a mental handicap.
The bulk of these you agree we need to do something about. And yet, we're pandering to the biggest dollar instead of doing this. Imagine that. We can disagree on some of these... there's room for that. All political promises are really just goals, or a wish list. We do it in business all the time. Line up all your problems, pick your top 5, and we'll start on those.
Instead of working on some of these, we're actually working against many of them. In the unlikely event Sanders gets in office, he'll maybe be able to actually get one or two. But with the way our congress/senate has been acting in recent memory, getting one or two is great progress.
QUOTE=Siro;1102992]There is a lot of talk about how to measure productivity in this new age. By all measures, the internet has REDUCED productivity. The internet has transformed the world, and yet, it doesn't seem to have added anything to the GDP. A lot of economists and thinkers are trying to find ways to measure this added value brought upon by digital innovation in GDP calculations, but it isn't an easy task.[/QUOTE]
This started in the early 90's but as you've said living standards keep improving regardless of our calculations saying otherwise. Economists have been stumped for over 20 years about tech improvements not translating into measurable results.
I go with the seat of the pants meter on this one. Life is obviously getting much better and easier.
I'll try to engage your deeper points later. I relate to your ideas plenty.
This started in the early 90's but as you've said living standards keep improving regardless of our calculations saying otherwise. Economists have been stumped for over 20 years about tech improvements not translating into measurable results.
I go with the seat of the pants meter on this one. Life is obviously getting much better and easier.
I'll try to engage your deeper points later. I relate to your ideas plenty.
Like I said before, Sanders' social and foreign policy views align with mine. He just loses me when he starts talking about market manipulation to make it "more fair", as that would hurt all of us. But I think that presidents, in general, have little effect on the workings of the economy, and I wouldn't be that worried if he becomes president. If he gets the Dem nomination, then I'll consider voting for him. If Clinton gets it, I'll be bored to tears.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Owners are categorically different than employees. Most managers don't need to work that long. Most of them are just being taken advantage of.
I agree, but I think we have to start somewhere and move forward gradually. I think we should cut the work day to a harder 8 hours(double time) and eventually a soft 6.(time and a half)
1) Cutting hours creates more jobs in the same pool of laborers.
2) This reduces unemployment and makes the employee more valuable.
3) Prices rise but most of that is paid by people that make more and therefore consume more.
In this way wealth is redistributed to the lower class with limited government intervention. Of course this is more effective if we address Chinese trade manipulation' labor conditions, and wages. We have the leverage though, they need our market, without it they could face another revolution.
In order to implement a base salary I think we should institute some version of the "Fair Tax". A consumption tax where every American is mailed a check to cover the sales tax someone would have to pay if they made say 30k per year. I think it sets up a system where we can overtime adjust both the rebate and the tax rate to fit our needs as we transition to a new era in labor.
Provide your numbers with links(if you don't mind). Remember that we are talking about class here so an average across all Americans won't be sufficient. Further I hope your numbers don't count the unemployed/underemployed. That's not leisure time, that is stressful. I'm honestly not trying to be sassy and would actually be very interested to look at them.
Siro, I know you think your opinion of the future of our economy and technologically-focused free market is correct, but all it is is an opinion and speculation. People have been saying for decades that technology would replace the low level worker, and it has to a small degree. But those who make this assumption forget that the free market depends on the low/mid level laborer to help drive the market. It's in the markets best interest to have a skilled, employed populous, and this will never change.
I also love the comments that "things are just fine" in America for the typical working American. This coming from rich/upper-middle/middle class white Americans makes me skeptical. There are people suffering in the richest country in the free world. Things may be fine for you and your buddies, but there are way too many suffering and if you don't think new and innovative changes are not necessary I don't know what to tell you. This **** has been acknowledged then ignored or forgotten over and over and over again.
We need to stop thinking small and innovate again.
I also love the comments that "things are just fine" in America for the typical working American. This coming from rich/upper-middle/middle class white Americans makes me skeptical. There are people suffering in the richest country in the free world. Things may be fine for you and your buddies, but there are way too many suffering and if you don't think new and innovative changes are not necessary I don't know what to tell you. This **** has been acknowledged then ignored or forgotten over and over and over again.
We need to stop thinking small and innovate again.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Co-ops are perfectly compatible with free markets. Land O' Lakes is a co-op. So is every Credit Union.
Trade Unions are also compatible with our system and way less of a move toward socialism than what you propose.
It's not a free market. China is manipulating the market and their currency and we continue to conduct "free trade" with them. Yes we need some manufacturing capacity. If for no other reason than for security. Without some manufacturing we are vulnerable. We shouldn't allow a communist regime to prop itself up by manipulating our market.
What is your point? All your disagreements are also opinion and speculation. Hell, saying "I'm going to work tomorrow" is also opinion and speculation. Also, I already responded to the claim about how people always said this about technology. I don't see what the rest of what you're saying have to do with anything.
None of that applies to me. Am I allowed to comment on the state of the country that I live in?
Again with the utopia dreams. Nobody is saying that things are perfect. Nobody is saying that things can't be improved. WE'RE SAYING THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION, ALONG WITH YOUR SOLUTIONS, ARE WRONG.
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I don't really care about whether something is labelled "capitalist" or "socialist", and I suspect neither do you. I have no problem with unions, but trying to force the issue through regulation isn't my idea of a solution.
Whatever you want to call the system of capital and trade that we engage in. I'm not equipped to argue about the philosophy of each term. And I don't buy what you're saying about manufacturing. Manufacturing naturally migrates to where labor is cheapest. China won't retain its seat as the world's manufacturing capital forever.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
You do need people to understand what a co-op is and how it works. Yes you can force them. Many credit Unions, IIRC, were originally set up by the gov. The gov provided starting capital to get them up and running.
They can if they use the power of their regime to keep wages in China suppressed and use the capital gained to expand the power of the state. Which is pretty much exactly what they are doing.
The reason we are still at 0% interest.(****in crazy) is because the Fed is trying to fight deflation. Much of that continuing deflationary pressure is due to Chinese policy.
? >>>>> HC
There used to be a saying 'if it's not broke don't fix it'. That has been replaced with PR/PC 'everything is broke and we need to fix it'. The unfortunate thing with education is the fix it felix crowd don't know a damn thing about child education and are the ones breaking it trying to fix it.
Easy answer. Mitt.
Whatevs. We had our chance to elect someone smart and ethical. We ran scared.
My point is I think you're opinions are flawed and not grounded in reality. Just stating my opinion, and not sure why you're losing your **** over it. I apologize I didn't see a response to your "get off my lawn" opinion about tech. The rest was my opinion of your opinion. Deal with it.
Sure it does, you carry opinions similar to that stereotype. Yes, you're allowed to say whatever the **** you want, I don't care. Just don't assume because you take unimaginative, status quo approaches to issues means that us lowly optimists need to bow down to your boring ideas.
Haha. I love this ****. "Utopia" is often a word used my boring conformists to describe change they are either uncomfortable with. Ending suffering, while unrealistic and never going to happen, is the ****ing goal, son. Throwing it out with the bath water because it doesn't fit within in your preconceived middle-of-the-road reality (which is complete ******** and just as unrealistic) is cynical and boarder line nihilistic. As for your ALL CAPS tempter tantrum, I do understand the situation and I like my solutions. Yes, I'm not totally educated on every issue, but neither are you, and you yelling I'm wrong...well....is just ****ing stupid.
Don't worry, none of your large scale, real estate development welfare is going anywhere anytime soon. Yer good, bruh.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Well damn. I see this ending well.
I have no problem with real estate development welfare programs. I use them all the time.