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I know there are a lot of LDS people here

It's not really the long-run anymore. The fight has already been lost.

This is now about the degree to which the church is willing to marginalize itself and make it clear that it is a niche as the decades go on.
 
It's not really the long-run anymore. The fight has already been lost.

This is now about the degree to which the church is willing to marginalize itself and make it clear that it is a niche as the decades go on.

I'm glad that they lost the fight over gay marriage. But I think it is being over stated how marginalized this will make the LDS church. I don't think it will hurt them that much at all long term.
 
I'm glad that they lost the fight over gay marriage. But I think it is being over stated how marginalized this will make the LDS church. I don't think it will hurt them that much at all long term.

It kind of already is lots of people left the church this last week, and growth will slow a fair amount.
 
It kind of already is lots of people left the church this last week, and growth will slow a fair amount.

In the short term I agree. But the church isn't just an American church. It will continue to grow in size and power.
 
It's not really the long-run anymore. The fight has already been lost.

This is now about the degree to which the church is willing to marginalize itself and make it clear that it is a niche as the decades go on.

So, Kicky. . . you still have me on ignore because you want to be on the winning side, riding the wave, to the extent that you just don't want people in your view who disagree with you? I think that "in the long run" you are wrong, along with the whole kit and caboodle of trendy politicos today. You only marginalize yourself when you get picky, Kicky.

In the long term, the LGBT folks will become pariahs in the eyes of a rising generation. People with no kids have no future. It's the problem of how to transmit values to another generation. You have to be there, and be real, as in really involved in the lives of that generation. In the long run, we have historical examples of societies and cultures that went the way we are going, and things have always shifted back towards the successful model of family life. Heterosexual parents raising their own kids and teaching them by example and precept to do what they have done.

Dinner at the finest restaurant in town says, that in 2030, the LDS Church will be riding the wave of a return to traditional family models, and hugely successful in promoting that traditional family model.
 
Having not read through the thread to see others' responses, who said that God hates gay people?

There's some background material on this as a thread running across about nine hundred years in a book called "The Bible". In the Bible, God is invoked as the source for a lot of human reason trotted out as "commandments of God". Sure, it professes to represent the views of people from Abraham to the Christian apostles, but the OT was compiled under the orders of Solomon in his campaign to render the Israelite lore into a state religion, so it represents potentially serious editing.

Abraham, however, is presented as pleading with God to not destroy the reputedly gay cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Israelites coming into the "Promised Land" were allegedly instructed by God to destroy the gay Amorites and other gay bands of inhabitants some one thousand years later. The Israelites grew weary of trying to do that genocide, however, and were still fighting the gay Philistines four hundred years later. . . . and in the days of Jezebel, practically the whole Israel nation was gay itself.

So no matter how some may make pariahs of the LGBT folks, you can bet they'll keep coming into fashion from time to time no matter what efforts can be made to marginalize them or drive them back into the closets. . . . and God will always be invoked as either being fer 'em or agin 'em.

Moe was being cute when she said it, but it does appear God has singled them out for the special punishment of being infertile couples. . . .others may invoke Darwin on the survival of the fittest if God is too obscure a character for rational expositions of nature.

The whole of human history is not linear, but cyclical, with successive generations or eras essentially rejecting their immediate past in favor of some "new" fashion of thought.

Welcome to the merry-go-round.
 
LDS doctrine teaches that all people will have a fair opportunity to accept the gospel, in this life or the next. A child being raised by wonderful parents that don't share our views on same-sex marriage will obviously have a better opportunity at some point to choose to be baptized or not.

I think this is the part that is often being left out - whether intentionally or not, who knows - as people express their outrage. But I still have faith in a Heavenly Father who is fair and just. I'm still working through all of my thoughts and feelings on this, but from an eternal perspective everyone will ultimately be treated fairly.
 
Question for the LDS folks:

I've grown up in Utah and have never been LDS. When I was young, I was invited to the LDS Church by my friends and neighbors. I went a few times and participated in church recitals and other activities, with my friends. The church part was not for me, but I know that is a way some kids are exposed to the LDS faith.

Would you encourage your kids to invite a kid with gay parents to church. Why or why not?

On the one hand, I wouldn't want to discourage my kids from acting on a missionary opportunity. On the other hand, of course I'd be worried about the other kid having a bad experience. Dang it, stop asking tough questions!
 
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