Jazz Offseason Plan

[infection]

What do you wanna bet he could dunk a ball over them mountains.

 

[NUMBERICA]

This thread just got really good

 

[Ron Mexico]

Favors is hard. I would like the Jazz to use his money for something else. On the flip side he was solid in the regular season, he was really good in the first round, he was good in the first game of the series, and then he was crap in the last 5 games.

Was that because he was injured, worn down, or schemed out?

We can possibly replace him for cheaper and possibly get a different style player. But again for the majority of the season he was solid. My main concern is he just can't stay healthy especially when it matters. He seems to be able to overcome this for a game or two in the playoffs and then he's done.

 

[Gameface]

As we spend the early offseason bantering back and forth on what we think the Jazz should or will do in the upcoming weeks, there’s one mental road block that keeps popping up, reminding me that for the first time in 37 years of being a Jazz fan, I probably have ZERO idea of what the Jazz will do.

I realize that while we’ve seen a few different FO’s during that span, we also haven’t seen a FO operate that wasn’t ran by the Millers. The fact of the matter is that the Layden’s and their philosophies weren’t any different than KOC and his philosophies. Hell, that’s EXACTLY why KOC was hired. He fit the Miller mindset to a “T” and it’s no accident that Lindsey was the next man up after KOC. As a fan base, we’ve been spoon fed the EXACT same philosophy from our Front Office for the last 40 years because that mindset was the marching orders handed down my Miller ownership.

I can honestly say that for the first time in 4 decades, we’re in uncharted territory. In looking into Ryan Smith’s business philosophies, he seems to really key on one major talking point: Complacency will kill you faster that anything. It goes hand in hand with the age old mantra that the biggest enemy to great is good. The truth is, we could come up with 100 reasons why Larry and Gail Miller were fantastic owners, but at the same time, it would be extremely easy to come up with just as many reasons why this team was never winning a title under Miller ownership. To put it bluntly, they were happy being really good, and were not willing to put that at risk for the chance at being great.

I’ll readily admit that I have absolutely no idea what Ryan Smith is about to do, but I feel extremely confident that for the first time in ages, it will be something different. I think it’s pretty clear that Smith didn’t give D-Wade a REALLY sweet deal to own a small chunk of the Jazz just so he could show him off sitting court side all season long. Smith realizes that the status quo isn’t gonna win us anything and that it’s also the quickest way to run Donovan out of town. D-Wade is going to be a major player in how this roster looks going forward and I’m pretty excited to see what that looks like.
I think it’s very feasible that the 2021-22 Utah Jazz roster doesn’t have Bogey, Jingles, Favors, and maybe even Rudy anywhere to be seen come opening night. Ryan Smith is absolutely terrified of complacency and if he runs his basketball team like he runs his business, we’re going to learn that very quickly.

Funny I've always heard that saying used a bit differently. The enemy of the good is the great. Which has always been used in the ways I've seen it to mean that in an attempt to be great you lose what is good... and never really achieve greatness in the process.

I guess that saying has been reversed in how you've heard it.

I do agree that we are likely in for an interesting time.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I would trade Clarkson high right now. I think he has decent trade value and we can get a better fit player. I really like that he can score on his own when we really need points, but I also think he shoots us out of games and no one else gets involved when he's in. I think ingles, favors, and other bench guys can't get going because he dominates the ball and rarely passes. I would much rather see some team game to the bench and have another cheaper guy try to do that when we really need it. I think mudiay type player could do that and did. When Clarkson was shooting great from 3 he was huge for us. But that was only the first half of the season and then he went back to what he's been his whole career shooting wise.

 

[Keefe]

Favors is hard.

Perv.

You still coaching China’s figure skating?

 

[Bodhi]

Favors is hard. I would like the Jazz to use his money for something else. On the flip side he was solid in the regular season, he was really good in the first round, he was good in the first game of the series, and then he was crap in the last 5 games.

Was that because he was injured, worn down, or schemed out?

We can possibly replace him for cheaper and possibly get a different style player. But again for the majority of the season he was solid. My main concern is he just can't stay healthy especially when it matters. He seems to be able to overcome this for a game or two in the playoffs and then he's done.

I would argue he wasn’t good for the majority of the season.

I seem to remember more like: 15 games total (including playoffs) good, the vast majority Tony Bradley level of play, 10-15 unplayable/head scratching.

All for the wildly high amount of around $9+ M, or, 3 X’s what a guy like him should be getting paid.

 

[NAOS]

Give me:

JC + #30 for Marcus Smart
then,
HH’s nuclear option of Favors and pick for Dort

Let’s defend the **** out ****ing everything.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would argue he wasn’t good for the majority of the season.

I seem to remember more like: 15 games total (including playoffs) good, the vast majority Tony Bradley level of play, 10-15 unplayable/head scratching.

All for the wildly high amount of around $9+ M, or, 3 X’s what a guy like him should be getting paid.

He was solid most of the year... was solid in the first round. The Clips series showed the limitations of investing in two non-stretch centers. The biggest issue with our backup centers is that we run the same schemes when Rudy is on the floor and off the floor. Other guys just aren't as good at being Rudy as Rudy is at being Rudy.

You'd hope this season shows the front office and Quin that they need variety. Even good ole Bud has moved from drop big to heavy switching.

If we were investing the entire MLE in a center I thought we needed a guy that could shoot and toggle between power forward and center positions. Jamychal Green for example... but I understand why we didn't get him since he signed for way more than Favs... oh wait... he signed a two year 14.5M deal... Favs went 3/30M

 

[Bodhi]

He was solid most of the year... was solid in the first round. The Clips series showed the limitations of investing in two non-stretch centers. The biggest issue with our backup centers is that we run the same schemes when Rudy is on the floor and off the floor. Other guys just aren't as good at being Rudy as Rudy is at being Rudy.

You'd hope this season shows the front office and Quin that they need variety. Even good ole Bud has moved from drop big to heavy switching.

If we were investing the entire MLE in a center I thought we needed a guy that could shoot and toggle between power forward and center positions. Jamychal Green for example... but I understand why we didn't get him since he signed for way more than Favs... oh wait... he signed a two year 14.5M deal... Favs went 3/30M

Exactly, on the last sentence. We can argue the nuances of if he was good or ok for particular games, but the financials made and still make no sense.

AND WE GAVE HIM A PLAYER #$%&ing OPTION FOR THE 3RD YEAR!!!!!

 

[Keefe]

Cleveland was dead last in 3 point percentage last year.

Nance for Bogey. This gives them the shooting they need and a vet presence, saves us ~6M, makes us younger and gets us someone who can play both ends of the court far better than Bogey imo. He can evolve into a high end stretch 4 imo.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly, on the last sentence. We can argue the nuances of if he was good or ok for particular games, but the financials made and still make no sense.

AND WE GAVE HIM A PLAYER #$%&ing OPTION FOR THE 3RD YEAR!!!!!

That contract sucks for so many reasons. Say Conley leaves us... that contract prevents us from using the MLE on something we REALLY need. We’d need to clear some room to get under the apron as it stands.

If we had played hardball and take a few million off of the deal each year we avoid the tax (and the repeater tax in a year). At very least you’d think we coulda got a final year non guaranteed. I just don’t think he had the same offer and certainly not in a place he’d feel as comfortable as he is here.

Sucks when the second or third order of business in your offseason is to find a way to undo the work you did last offseason.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Cleveland was dead last in 3 point percentage last year.

Nance for Bogey. This gives them the shooting they need and a vet presence, saves us ~6M, makes us younger and gets us someone who can play both ends of the court far better than Bogey imo. He can evolve into a high end stretch 4 imo.

I love Nance as a 4/5 hybrid. I think he is who he is at this point... not sure he’s gonna get a whole lot better but a new situation couldn’t hurt. I think they love him though.

 

[Bodhi]

That contract sucks for so many reasons. Say Conley leaves us... that contract prevents us from using the MLE on something we REALLY need. We’d need to clear some room to get under the apron as it stands.

If we had played hardball and take a few million off of the deal each year we avoid the tax (and the repeater tax in a year). At very least you’d think we coulda got a final year non guaranteed. I just don’t think he had the same offer and certainly not in a place he’d feel as comfortable as he is here.

Sucks when the second or third order of business in your offseason is to find a way to undo the work you did last offseason.

Year after year.

DL has/had zero foresight or ability to see the future ramifications of an individual deal it seems.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Year after year.

DL has/had zero foresight or ability to see the future ramifications of an individual deal it seems.

Remember the cake baking years where we punted free agency to make sure we had budget to keep guys... I think this has been a constant issue to plan around and he’s been bad managing it.

 

[Keefe]

I love Nance as a 4/5 hybrid. I think he is who he is at this point... not sure he’s gonna get a whole lot better but a new situation couldn’t hurt. I think they love him though.

This is our problem. A complete lack of vision. I recommended Clarkson over two years ago. People looked at him as a chucker and loser…since the Cavs are. Playing on losing teams is ****ing toxic. Hell, just look at Kevin Love this year. Guys give half-hearted effort way too often, don’t fight for position, don’t box out, the list goes on and on. The list of guys in this league who have Nance’s length (7’1” wingspan), frame (wiry but fairly strong), and ability to shoot the 3 (at this age nonetheless) can be counted on probably one hand. Throw him around winners like Donnie and Rudy and you suddenly have a really good ****ing two way player.

 

[Bodhi]

This is our problem. A complete lack of vision. I recommended Clarkson over two years ago. People looked at his as a chucked and loser…since the Cavs are. Playing on losing teams is ****ing toxic. Hell, just look at Kevin Love’s be heavier this year. Guys give half-hearted effort way too often, don’t fight for position, don’t box out, the list goes on and on. The list of guys in this league who have Nance’s length (7’1” wingspan), frame (wiry but fairly strong), and ability to shoot the 3 (at this age nonetheless) can be counted on probably one hand. Throw him around winners like Donnie and Rudy and you suddenly have a really good ****ing two way player.

I would LOVE Nance, but how do we get him?

 

[Keefe]

I would LOVE Nance, but how do we get him?

For Bogey. The Cavs were dead last in 3 point percentage. Having a great shooter really helps to develop young guards like Saxton and Garland.

 

[Keefe]

You pull Bogey for Nance and our off-season is off to a roaring start IMO. Then, dump Favors on OKC. Sign Batum to the full MLE. And do the best we can to keep Conley or replace him.

 

[Bodhi]

For Bogey. The Cavs were dead last in 3 point percentage. Having a great shooter really helps to develop young guards like Saxton and Garland.

I would do that deal but Bogey is on a diff timeline than the rest of that roster I would think.