You are a douchebag of epic proportions lmao
Trade deadline discussion
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I've seen enough season-ending meltdowns to put a little more weight on the backend of the game. Somewhere around 5 in the last two years alone, and they mostly came from not being able to get stops (and turning the ball over).
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No he didnt lmfao.
He got ripped by Harris w/ 8.4 seconds left then Denver made a really stupid play and Conley nearly hit a last second game winner.
And MItchell had 22 points, not 57. He had 9 turnovers and went 9/22 from the field in a 2 point loss.
Anyway, I'm procrastinating other **** and should resume staying off here. I would just like to zoom out and say that the Jazz need to build the team in a way where they have a main lineup that consists of Donovan, Rudy, a well-rounded and unselfish player with some scoring and defensive chops (I think Conley works as this piece), and two 3 and D guys. However we get to that place, I'm for it.
"Don is there when it matters most, but if he isnt I will make an excuse for him and blame it on Mike COnley or Rudy Gobert" - Lopo
Then you have a poor understanding of simple numbers and context.
There are many ways to upgrade this roster. Trading Conley is one of them for sure but while Mitchell is a great shotmaker and can kick out passes out of the PnR, he can't read the game as naturally as a PG. He can't carry the load of shotmaking and playmaking like Luka Doncic or Trae Young. He is getting better but he is not there. We have seen Mitchell having trouble alternating between these duties.
Now, Conley can't cover the weakness of Mitchell, he is not versatile on defense but he holds his own. He is a plus defender who knows how to rotate, when to dig in and doesn't have possessions where he decides not to defend anyone. He could definitely be traded to improve our defense but you are giving up on being a historic offensive team then and what you get needs to be great enough that our defense improves to top-3. Josh Richardson and Grant Williams aren't that. May be Simmons is but good luck getting him.
LogGrad98
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That was why I said "if". I don't think anything is going to happen before the trade deadline anyway, but this would put us on another level if it or something similar could happen.
Handlogten's Heros
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3rd quarters were more disastrous against the clips... it all matters. If we aren't down 5-6 points going in to the last few minutes you can just try and score with your opponent. Niang/Favs were so bad... I can't help but think improving those minutes would have given us a better shot. That key lineup is really positive... in the regular season and the playoffs.
The Jazz key players got blasted against Clippers in games 3-6. It won't matter if we're better in the 6-10 minutes Niang/Favors played if we our main lineup can't even compete with a Kawhi-less Clippers squad. Without Conley and Mitchell was injured....sure. But that was ugly.
LoPo
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The 8 second count happened in regulation.
Are we talking about Conley? He had a great view from the bench. He should have urged Don to go faster.
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LoPo
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Conley was unnecessary based of what he has provided in the playoffs over 2 years. We would have been better served giving Don more touches in that role
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LoPo
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Everybody wants to like Conley because he's a great dude. He really is. But some cute regular season numbers don't cover the issues.
Don and Conley don't work together.
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Don and Conley don't work together.
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Handlogten's Heros
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I mean we were without one of our key players... so we never got to the main lineups until Mike came limping in for game 6. The Clips got a ton of contributions from guys that aren't in their main closing lineup... they also had a malleable roster that allowed them to discover the small ball that ended up really burying us.
Its also just dumb to think that 6-10 minutes don't matter... we actually could sneak out 12-18 minutes with a different player if they aren't ****ing awful... then maybe your main guys have a little in the tank. Margins are small in the playoffs... 6 minutes in the 3rd aren't as important as 6 minutes to close the game but they are still important. You can also do a little defense for offense substitutions in the last couple minutes since the game stops so much.
Bogey wasn't the reason we got blasted in the clips series and was one of the reasons we had a fighting chance. And if all your main players are getting blasted... then swapping out Bogey won't matter either... so you can't assume your main guys will get blasted again.
Championship teams get key contributions from the bench and spot players every year. It all matters.
So was Mitchell and Gobert considering we lost the series.
I doubt Mitchell ever becomes a Harden, Luka type but how would Don pick up how to play PG without Conley and Rubio? It's not like Rubio didn't help Darius Garland who is a MIP candidate now. Tutelage matters and while Mitchell improved, he improved mainly as a shotmaker who passes not as a playmaker.
It works on offense, it doesn't work on defense because of Mitchell not Conley.
1) I'll say I underrated how often he does it after looking at the stats (approximately 15th in volume of 3s off the dribble/game).
2) Don't whine, you said Mike was the only guy in the league who could do it and that's bull. I listed the most obvious counterexample.
3) Don is currently our 1A ballhandler and is doing fairly well in that role (in particular I'd like to see him improve sharing the ball late in games and in throwing lobs to Rudy). I don't think moving him to our clear #1 and getting a #2 back in a Conley trade is going to tank our offense.
Conley wouldn't be my first choice to trade, but he's shouldn't be off the table either.
LoPo
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You're so ridiculous. If we hadn't put so many assets into Conley, Don and Rudy might have won the series.
Conley wasn't brought in to tutor. He was brought in to be the missing piece. What mistake.
If Conley is so good and Don is so bad, trade Don. Oh wait, the only Memphis game we lost last year was when Conley ran the team and Don sat.
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What assets? Brandon Clarke who only began to play well last 2 weeks? Grayson Allen who is still a terrible defender and only got playing time because Donte Divincenzo got injured. Or the least important starter that plays for the Suns?
And the initial trade was never my discussion but you are confused and haven't really been building an argument.
Conley wasn't brought in as a tutor but that doesn't mean Mitchell won't pick things up from him. He probably did but that didn't make him able to run the offense smoothly and consistently.
I have never said Don is a bad player. He is probably the best PnR scorer in the league and creates so much out of it but he isn't a natural PG. He needs someone to lessen his burdens, this isn't really a hard concept. If you bog him down with that burden, he won't be as effective.
The reason people are hard on Mitchell is because the most simple way we become a true contender is that he starts playing some defense. Doesn't need to become a difference maker, doesn't need to lockdown anyone. Just needs to fight through some screens and raise his head and rotate.
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campaignist
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I’m late to the party but Richardson should only be an option for Ingles and possibly JC, definitely not for Conley. He’d help but not that much, and not worth Conley. Adding Williams isn’t an incentive because if you’re trading a rotation player, it needs to be a 1-for-1 upgrade.
LoPo
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If Conley, Don, Bojan and Royce all play to their absolute defensive bests, we are not a contender.
#1 - they aren't that good even at their bests.
#2 - they are undersized or lack athleticism.
#3 - we don't have a defensive specialist helping off the bench to address the size/athleticism issues.
I don't understand why that concept is so hard. Sure Conley can help the offense. Sure things can improve individually and collectively. But we still don't have the horses necessary to battle the teams that do.
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You don't need to trade Conley, Don, Bojan and Royce to improve defensively. Any amount you get helps and we don't need to be able get a stop everytime. Making them work for it and giving our offense a chance to win us games is enough. The problem was never that we didn't play great defense, it was just that we were so bad that our great offense didn't win us the games we should. That's achievable with a trade that works around the margins. Especially if Rudy Gay settles in and plays more like last year.
Getting that 10-12 minutes of defensive player isn't sexy like a starter but it is absolutely worth it. Heck even House could be a part of the rotation and help us in the playoffs and if we drop defensive negatives that aren't really integral to offense like Clarkson or Ingles and get a similar talent, all the better.
Also this is my last post in this argument.