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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Elizah Huge said:
23/25/27 unprotected 1sts
2023 Dallas 1st (top-10 protected)
2025 Milwaukee 1st (top-4 protected)
26/28 pick swaps
Obi Toppin
Quentin Grimes
Salary filler (Fournier or preferably Rose)

This seems like a really good compromise from both sides.
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I could see that. I'd be willing to take out the MKE pick and one of the swaps, if need be. I'd keep the Dallas pick to load up on the '23 draft and jumpstart the rebuild.

Also, if the Jazz wait til the trade deadline with this deal, the Knicks are very likely to be headed for the lottery, something like 10th or 11th in the EC.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Paul George was traded for 5 1sts (4 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps

James Harden was traded for 4 1sts (all unprotected) plus 4 pick swaps

Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 1sts (both unprotected) plus 2 pick swaps

Dejounte Murray was traded for 3 1sts (2 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

Rudy Gobert was traded for 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

The average trade if you add all of these together are 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps.

Just something to think about.
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Don’t forget the people, they mess up the equations, as does which teams for which years the picks and swaps are for.
 
Elizah Huge said:
23/25/27 unprotected 1sts
2023 Dallas 1st (top-10 protected)
2025 Milwaukee 1st (top-4 protected)
26/28 pick swaps
Obi Toppin
Quentin Grimes
Salary filler (Fournier or preferably Rose)

This seems like a really good compromise from both sides.
Click to expand...

Fury from the Knicks board said he’d probably do this.

I would also say I’d add a Bogdanovic/Fournier swap (assuming we were taking Rose back in the original deal) if the Knicks added the Detroit or Washington 1st they own.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I could see that. I'd be willing to take out the MKE pick and one of the swaps, if need be. I'd keep the Dallas pick to load up on the '23 draft and jumpstart the rebuild.

Also, if the Jazz wait til the trade deadline with this deal, the Knicks are very likely to be headed for the lottery, something like 10th or 11th in the EC.
Click to expand...

I really want the Knicks and Mavericks 2023 1sts.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Fury from the Knicks board said he’d probably do this.

I would also say I’d add a Bogdanovic/Fournier swap (assuming we were taking Rose back in the original deal) if the Knicks added the Detroit or Washington 1st they own.
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Nah. Keeping them in prison is important and Bogey would liberate them.

On that note, even though I think I like Grimes more than Quickley, Quickley and Toppin are their +\- darlings so I want to take that away from them.
 
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why. Small markets don’t come across a guy like Donovan very often. He’s very talented, great on and off the court. He hasn’t asked for a trade. We haven’t really had a team where he’s the smallest guy in the lineup. Why not give it a shot? Is there really no way to rebuild this team with Mitchell? He’s entering his prime.
 
Max Porter said:
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why. Small markets don’t come across a guy like Donovan very often. He’s very talented, great on and off the court. He hasn’t asked for a trade. We haven’t really had a team where he’s the smallest guy in the lineup. Why not give it a shot? Is there really no way to rebuild this team with Mitchell? He’s entering his prime.
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The consensus from everyone in the media both locally and nationally is that he's not going to re-sign in Utah once his contract is up. He has 3 years left on his contract, so they're going to have to trade him eventually no matter what. Do you keep him for another year or two and use some of the assets from the Gobert trade to build around him and maybe best-case scenario you win enough regular season games to be a play-in team for a couple of years and then you have to trade him anyway (likely for less because we lose leverage if he only has one or two years left on his contract), or do you rip the band aide off now, tear the whole thing completely down, acquire as many draft picks and young players as you can from Donovan, Bogey, Conley, JC, etc. and re-build?

The worst thing you can be in the NBA is mediocre, you either want to be a good team that can contend for a championship or a really bad team so that you can have a chance at drafting a franchise player. Keeping Don would lead us into NBA no man's land and then we would have to trade him for a lesser return.
 
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Max Porter said:
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why. Small markets don’t come across a guy like Donovan very often. He’s very talented, great on and off the court. He hasn’t asked for a trade. We haven’t really had a team where he’s the smallest guy in the lineup. Why not give it a shot? Is there really no way to rebuild this team with Mitchell? He’s entering his prime.
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Because you either get assets for him, or he eventually walks. Because he doesn't want to be here. Because his playing style and shooting aren't that great. Because he keeps the team mediocre when they have a promising draft to tank for. Because he is not/will not be the guy who leads a core that will produce a championship (unless it is a perfect fit). Because the grudge with Gobert truly just served as a front for the fact that he has long wanted out.

I think at the very beginning there was a chance that he could have been a Jazzman for life. Hayward's decision to leave really cut a hole in our core that we never recovered from, and changed the narrative for the players the Jazz retained in a bad way. It spoiled Mitchell in a way by essentially featuring him right out of the gate. It altered Gordon's future for the worse, too.

Building around Gobert/Mitchell/Hayward would have been terrific. It would have started out with Hayward leading, and then Mitchell eventually supplanting him as the go-to. That process would have been perfect for Hayward, because he was never supposed to be a #1 option. It also would have dramatically changed the story arc for Mitchell, and what he has experienced in Utah. He would have come into his own in a different way than he did, and he might have become a better/different player for it.

I don't know if they would have gone to the finals, but they would have been very good. The three of them would have complemented each other perfectly. Hayward really blew it. He didn't know what he had.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Paul George was traded for 5 1sts (4 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps

James Harden was traded for 4 1sts (all unprotected) plus 4 pick swaps

Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 1sts (both unprotected) plus 2 pick swaps

Dejounte Murray was traded for 3 1sts (2 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

Rudy Gobert was traded for 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

The average trade if you add all of these together are 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps.

Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

How many years did those players each have left on their contracts? That matters.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Paul George was traded for 5 1sts (4 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps

James Harden was traded for 4 1sts (all unprotected) plus 4 pick swaps

Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 1sts (both unprotected) plus 2 pick swaps

Dejounte Murray was traded for 3 1sts (2 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

Rudy Gobert was traded for 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 1 pick swap

The average trade if you add all of these together are 4 1sts (3 unprotected and 1 protected) plus 2 pick swaps.

Just something to think about.
Click to expand...
I used to think DM is better than PG especially after the Denver series. Now I think it's the other way around. Both very good #2 guy but PGs defense sets him apart. He can guard elite guys like lebron and still contribute efficiently on offense. Dm otoh is disinterested on D. If you're short you and wanted to be elite, you got to work more.
 
Max Porter said:
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why. Small markets don’t come across a guy like Donovan very often. He’s very talented, great on and off the court. He hasn’t asked for a trade. We haven’t really had a team where he’s the smallest guy in the lineup. Why not give it a shot? Is there really no way to rebuild this team with Mitchell? He’s entering his prime.
Click to expand...
No... Donovan has been class about this but I believe behind closed doors he wants out. With the current roster by the time we get enough pieces to win a championship, he'll be gone. Even if we try, it's not like players are knocking down the door to play in Utah so who exactly are we going to bring in?
 
Max Porter said:
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why.
Click to expand...
We had what was in many way two very complimentary superstars in Rudy and Mitchell, a fantastic supporting cast full of people who were good at their roles, all coached by who was recognized as one of the best in the game all to be constantly bounced by the NBA equivalent of Frodo bodying Sauron and you still can't figure that out?

**** wasn't working and it will never work. Folks really need to wake up to this fact.
 
Max Porter said:
the general consensus im gathering from jazz fans is that they prefer Donovan to be traded but I still can’t fully grasp why. Small markets don’t come across a guy like Donovan very often. He’s very talented, great on and off the court. He hasn’t asked for a trade. We haven’t really had a team where he’s the smallest guy in the lineup. Why not give it a shot? Is there really no way to rebuild this team with Mitchell? He’s entering his prime.
Click to expand...
Everything you said I agree with but if you are going to be great you have to suck first especially in a small market. The team with Rudy and DM was not assembled correctly. You cannot just rebuild to be mediocre. I would have been more inclined to keep DM if the Jazz were able to swing a deal for Ayton. Do you think DM wants to be part of a rebuild that might have the same results of first round exits. DM is in his prime so he wants experienced guys around him. The front failed DM and Rudy when they were not able to add SF/SG length and athleticism. So as much as it pains me to see DM go in the long run I think it will be the best thing. I say this if the Jazz can hit it big in the lottery, if the picks suck or we suck at drafting then moving Rudy and DM will look very foolish. I will always be torn about this decision unless the Jazz can win a championship then it will be happy days. hahahahaa
 
Curious if Orlando makes a play for Donovan. They have the necessary picks and expiring/non-guaranteed deals. Does someone like Don move the needle for them?
 
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