Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[framer]

I mean it seems pretty obvious at this point that whatever is going to happen with Sexton is waiting on Donovan Mitchell. Seems to point to him coming to the Jazz as there has been plenty of smoke. We need to check with Windhorst though. . .

 

[Keefe]

1 - he's not a rookie and hasn't been for a long time
2 - the guy can pour in buckets efficiently and did so two seasons ago
3 - he's a hard worker
4 - buy low opportunity; the Jazz don't have to keep him forever, they could also flip him later.

I don't think the Jazz are approaching this from any other angle than that it might be a buy-low opportunity.

I get the improvement, potential and upside. But are we trying to truly tank or not? As far as being a hard worker, cmon. Really? And is a 57.3 TS% two years ago really that efficient that it should be referenced? In four seasons his average is 55.0%. Nothing remotely special.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Do you ever wonder how many bowling alleys they destroyed when they made these commercials?

Leave the kool-aid guy alone

 

[NUMBERICA]

I get the improvement, potential and upside. But are we trying to truly tank or not? As far as being a hard worker, cmon. Really? And is a 57.3 TS% two years ago really that efficient that it should be referenced? In four seasons his average is 55.0%. Nothing remotely special.

It's not Chauncey Billups efficient (dude doesn't get half the respect he should for how special he was, but I digress), but that is efficient (for a guard), yes.

It's a Moneyball play. And I don't think Sexton is gonna win us a ton of games with a depleted roster. I'm not even sure I actually support the move or how it would get done, I'm just saying I get it. He was on track to be a no-brainer max contract a year ago.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's not Chauncey Billups efficient (dude doesn't get half the respect he should for how special he was, but I digress), but that is efficient (for a guard), yes.

It's a Moneyball play. And I don't think Sexton is gonna win us a ton of games with a depleted roster. I'm not even sure I actually support the move or how it would get done, I'm just saying I get it. He was on track to be a no-brainer max contract a year ago.

He could have a Zach Lavine like glow up. He was viewed as just a gunner with big scoring numbers on ****** teams… sexton could shed some of that stink. The deal has to be good for me to buy in but I’d consider it.

 

[Keefe]

It's not Chauncey Billups efficient (dude doesn't get half the respect he should for how special he was, but I digress), but that is efficient (for a guard), yes.

It's a Moneyball play. And I don't think Sexton is gonna win us a ton of games with a depleted roster. I'm not even sure I actually support the move or how it would get done, I'm just saying I get it. He was on track to be a no-brainer max contract a year ago.

He might not win us a ton of games but he could win us an extra 5-6 games than say Jared Butler who stinks. That could be the difference between the most ping pong balls and the fourth most. I think it’s too counterproductive to the tank.

 

[infection]

I’m in on Sexton. I didn’t realize his shooting numbers were as good as the are. I thought he was inefficient. In the same way that you need guys with salary to occupy space (for matching in trades), we’re also going to need guys with some level of talent to use in trades for other vets and not just have draft picks, and not that we would parlay Sexton into other draft assets. Our biggest weakness is not having the tools to pivot to winning outside of drafting guys.

 

[fishonjazz]

Draymond Green also usually leads that team in assists and is one of the most brilliant players in the game. He also has (or at least had) something resembling a jumper and perimeter game.

I disagree about the last sentence. I also think he has had more time in the league, better coaching and better teammates than vanderbilt. I could be wrong though.


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[NUMBERICA]

One last thought on Sexton:

What are the odds the Philly/Brooklyn pick next year yields a player as good as Sexton? Keefe makes a good point about him maybe being good enough to swing some games, but so does infection that we’re gonna need some good pieces with salary ballast for bigger moves down the road.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I disagree about the last sentence. I also think he has had more time in the league, better coaching and better teammates than vanderbilt. I could be wrong though.


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Vanderbilt will never lead any team in assists or a +/- god at the highest levels. That’s not a diss.

 

[fishonjazz]

Vanderbilt will never lead any team in assists or a +/- god at the highest levels. That’s not a diss.

Thats fine but he is 22.
Here is draymond at 22 years old: 13 minutes per game. 2.9 points on 32.7% from the field and 20.9% from three. 3.3 rebounds and 0.7 assists per game.

I would be willing to bet that of we had just traded for 22 year old draymond in the Gobert trade that you would be thrilled to trade him away for a first.

No one knows what vanderbilt might be. He is young, defends, has an amazing work ethic and is cheap. Maybe he never amounts to a draymond type player (in fact its unlikely) but im betting that no one thought draymond would amount to a draymond type player when he was the same age as vanderbilt.

Anywho, the post I originally responded to called vanderbilt an undersized 5 who couldnt shoot. I simply said that is also a description for dramond. That vauge and short description describes both players while only focusing on both players weaknesses and not mentioning any of the strengths. Each player does have some strengths.


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[Saint Cy of JFC]

One bad thing about Sexton on a tanking team is that it's just going to reinforce the things that make people lower on Sexton.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Thats fine but he is 22.
Here is draymond at 22 years old: 13 minutes per game. 2.9 points on 32.7% from the field and 20.9% from three. 3.3 rebounds and 0.7 assists per game.

I would be willing to bet that of we had just traded for 22 year old draymond in the Gobert trade that you would be thrilled to trade him away for a first.

No one knows what vanderbilt might be. He is young, defends, has an amazing work ethic and is cheap. Maybe he never amounts to a draymond type player (in fact its unlikely) but im betting that no one thought draymond would amount to a draymond type player when he was the same age as vanderbilt.

Anywho, the post I originally responded to called vanderbilt an undersized 5 who couldnt shoot. I simply said that is also a description for dramond. That vauge and short description describes both players while only focusing on both players weaknesses and not mentioning any of the strengths. Each player does have some strengths.


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'No one knows what Vanderbilt might be?

He's got 166 games under his belt. He is not like Draymond Green, at all. He's more of a Rodman archetype. He isnt going to have any crazy skill explosion.

Draymond Green is much more than an undersized 5. He's an offensive hub.

 

[Keefe]

I’m in on Sexton. I didn’t realize his shooting numbers were as good as the are. I thought he was inefficient. In the same way that you need guys with salary to occupy space (for matching in trades), we’re also going to need guys with some level of talent to use in trades for other vets and not just have draft picks, and not that we would parlay Sexton into other draft assets. Our biggest weakness is not having the tools to pivot to winning outside of drafting guys.

They’re not that good. They’re about average. He wasn’t even in the top 100 (I can’t see past that—he was likely around 105) in 2020-2021 and 100th was Devin Booker who was the 40th guard on the list…so he’s what maybe the 41st most efficient guard in what was his best year…and almost all of the dudes were starters or 6th men types. Not end of the bench guys.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I wouldnt be extremely upset if we kept Vanderbilt over a 1st rounder. He seems like a fun player. He seems a lot like Rudy Gobert minus the size. A guy who plays hard and knows his role. A guy you would definitely expect to become a fan favorite.

If you are holding onto him expecting some kind of jump in his ability where he suddenly becomes a guy who can playmake or shoot, you are probably going to be disappointed.

 

[Coach Ellis]

He might not win us a ton of games but he could win us an extra 5-6 games than say Jared Butler who stinks. That could be the difference between the most ping pong balls and the fourth most. I think it’s too counterproductive to the tank.

I’m in this mode too. Tear it down to the studs, and then burn that down to the foundation. I want DA to turn this roster over twice before the trade deadline. Trade everyone, then trade the veteran players you get back from those trades. Just don’t send out any picks. Add whatever you can, wherever you can.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One bad thing about Sexton on a tanking team is that it's just going to reinforce the things that make people lower on Sexton.

This is a legit worry. I do wonder if he was on a ****** team with some spacing if you could make him more pass happy... cuz he will know he can get shots whenever.

I don't think he's a losing player though. I think he may be able to play with others.

I'm not 1000% sold on him by any means... just think its a good buying opportunity. Like what if his number is like 4/60M? And maybe its slightly front loaded? Anfernee Simons just got 4/100M... IDK just seems like there might be some value there.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is a legit worry. I do wonder if he was on a ****** team with some spacing if you could make him more pass happy... cuz he will know he can get shots whenever.

I don't think he's a losing player though. I think he may be able to play with others.

I'm not 1000% sold on him by any means... just think its a good buying opportunity. Like what if his number is like 4/60M? And maybe its slightly front loaded? Anfernee Simons just got 4/100M... IDK just seems like there might be some value there.

I mean, it's the same thing as Mitchell with just less talent. His passing/playmaking isnt awful, it just isnt consistent. His defense is going to be mediocre at best.

And yeah, if he is 4/60 I would take him for sure.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wouldnt be extremely upset if we kept Vanderbilt over a 1st rounder. He seems like a fun player. He seems a lot like Rudy Gobert minus the size. A guy who plays hard and knows his role. A guy you would definitely expect to become a fan favorite.

If you are holding onto him expecting some kind of jump in his ability where he suddenly becomes a guy who can playmake or shoot, you are probably going to be disappointed.

I don't know if I'd offload him for a lotto protected first by himself. I might use him is required in a package to get the Lakers unprotected picks.

Reason I may want to keep him is if you did land Wemby or a 5 like that it might be a good fit to have him. Maybe him and Toppin work well together. I'm not in a hurry to offload him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't know if I'd offload him for a lotto protected first by himself. I might use him is required in a package to get the Lakers unprotected picks.

Reason I may want to keep him is if you did land Wemby or a 5 like that it might be a good fit to have him. Maybe him and Toppin work well together. I'm not in a hurry to offload him.

Oh yeah, no hurry at all. But he also becomes a UFA at the end of 2024. It would be best to workout a long-term extension if you believe in him.