Another religious topic......

[NUMBERICA]

Brigham Young as a man without question.

Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it.

So is he a blasphemer? Does he go to Outer Darkness? Or does he have the premier institution of learning named after him even today?

 

[Beantown]

I would be interested to see where it said that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to blacks. I have never heard this. This is the kind of thing I would know about if it happened, or at least I would think so.

As far as Prophets making mistakes, they are human like the rest of us. But certain mistakes would cause them to lose their calling as prophet. Being racist I would think is one of them.

I hate to burst your bubble but most of the church was racist back then. In fact look at guys like Mckonkie just recently.

But again people are products of their time and surroundings. So we need to take that into context.

The church is very very different from back then and even 50 years ago.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Pretty prophetic for its time no matter what your beliefs.

I am not trying to create an argument or be rude but I would say that some beliefs don't find the word of wisdom to be prophetic or a wise way to live healthy. Especially as defined by the church today.

As a side note I dont think WoW is a good acronym for word of wisdom. Thats just me, I think the majority of people in the world would assume World of Warcraft when they see WoW, maybe not.

 

[Craig K. Manscill]

Hello everyone,,

I'm enjoying this church related conversation. But I don't agree with a lot of your theories. Some of you are saying that God wasn't aware of racist policies taking place. Of course He was. Did God not care enough? Of course He cares, racism is a terrible thing. So neither of those work if you truly believe in a all-knowing, benevolent God.

One poster made a reference to the bible also being selectively racist. This is where my own theory comes into play. Since the church's sole purpose is to guide us in these latter days, and prophets are God's mouthpiece, we can only conclude that God wanted those before 1978 to be slightly racist to fit His plan. We can't possibly comprehend God's plan, so maybe there is a way racism is a good thing. I like to think so anyway. Because clearly our church was racist for most of its history, there is no denying that. Perhaps the means achieves the end. Let's embrace our racist past instead of getting defensive about it.

- Craig

 

[Nate505]

What do you guys think about African-Americans not receiving the priesthood til 1978 in the LDS religion?

Being a non-LDSer, I would say that's a black (no pun intended) mark on their church, and I say this as someone with no real beef or prejudice against the LDS church. Not that every church doesn't have aspects of their history that they probably wish they could do over, but the fact that this one is so recent makes it look bad IMO (heck, I was alive for the change...just barely).

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

IMO, the Brigham Young quote that Numberica posted makes this a pretty simply issue:

Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it.

In this context, Brigham Young basically says he is speaking directly for Jesus Christ. There's really no other way to spin it. Now when we get into the debate of prophets and how they can be flawed, we are talking about them and their shortcomings as a human being. While the bible may referance the human shortcomings of prophets, it is very direct in what it has to say about false prophets speaking for the lord. If you claim to be speaking for the lord, and you're wrong, you're a false prophet. It's just that simple and IMO there is absolutely no wiggle room/spinning on that.

I think it's more than fair to say that if you believe Brigham Young to be a true prophet of god, than you must believe his above quote when he says he is speaking for Jesus Christ in regards to blacks and the priesthood. Personally, I don't believe Jesus was a racist, so I could never get on board with BY as a prophet.

 

[Zulu]

What do you guys think about African-Americans not receiving the priesthood til 1978 in the LDS religion?

I'm sure a few of you were wainting to see if I would respond to this thread.

Read the parabale of the laborers found in Mathew Chapter 20:1-16!

Ask if you don't follow.

 

[Beantown]

So is he a blasphemer? Does he go to Outer Darkness? Or does he have the premier institution of learning named after him even today?

Brigham was a crazy dude, he did a lot of great things for the church but I think he mixed his personal feelings with religion. There's only a few things I have issues with the church but Mr. Young is atop that list.

 

[Bronco70]

In this context, Brigham Young basically says he is speaking directly for Jesus Christ.

Yep. That's what he said. Doesn't make it so, necessarily.

I think it's more than fair to say that if you believe Brigham Young to be a true prophet of god, than you must believe his above quote when he says he is speaking for Jesus Christ in regards to blacks and the priesthood.

I don't believe he was actually speaking for Jesus, in this instance, but I still believe he was a prophet. I know, I know... I read the whole post, false prophet, etc. I'm not saying you're wrong, DJjazzyman12, but this is where our opinions diverge. This is the question I ask myself; why not just run the joint yourself if you are going to do it through a guy who will do everything exactly as you would? I've asked this before, but what's the point if the prophet is just a puppet? If the rest of us have to use faith and our own consciences to grow, why not the prophet?

It's too simple to say, "God isn't like that, so anyone who claims to be his servant can't be either."

I'm not a BY apologist. Personally, I think the LDS understanding of a prophet and his function has been greatly distorted. But that's just my opinion.

Personally, I don't believe Jesus was a racist, so I could never get on board with BY as a prophet.

Thankfully, you don't have to.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Bronco Wrote:

I don't believe he was actually speaking for Jesus

I can see where you're coming from, but Brigham DID believe that he was speaking for Jesus. The problem with that is, it makes what you or I believe in regards to his quote somewhat irrelevant. This wasn't a case of Brigham doing something against the W.O.W, or saying something that turned out to be wrong. When those things happen, it just proves him to be an imperfect human like the rest of us. However, when a man (from any religion) tells the world the he is speaking for Jesus on a certain topic, IMO it turns into a pretty black and white issue. Either he is a prophet of god, and what he's saying is true, or he's a lunatic who is talking out of his ***.

Personally, I like the idea of living in a society where you can believe either/or without being ridiculed, persecuted, etc.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Brigham was a crazy dude, he did a lot of great things for the church but I think he mixed his personal feelings with religion. There's only a few things I have issues with the church but Mr. Young is atop that list.

That's fine-ish, but the ('all-knowing' by proxy) church apparently does not at all share your opinion in the least.

Go Cougars.

 

[Archie Moses]

That's fine-ish, but the ('all-knowing' by proxy) church apparently does not at all share your opinion in the least.

Go Cougars.

What, what?

Link???