Another religious topic......

[Gameface]

Oh, and being an atheist doesn't make me one bit closer to being a freaking muslim. Not even close.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Qur'an 22:47 a day in Jannah is like a thousand years on earth in which we count. The arabic word they use for day is simply a period of time or an era. When it states 6 days or 2 days or w/e it is referring era's or periods of times.

alaqa also means a leach like substance. Embyro's look like leaches.

Quran 67:5 "And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

It says it will punish satan with the same substance that stars are made up from. Fire hotter then anything on earth.

I am SOOO happy you brought up the light thing.

Look up this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2oxoagQbM&feature=channel_video_title

Every living and nonliving thing including you and I and the earth and the sun was made up from light using the equation E = MC^2 back when the Big Bang happened.

 

[Gameface]

Qur'an 22:47 a day in Jannah is like a thousand years on earth in which we count. The arabic word they use for day is simply a period of time or an era. When it states 6 days or 2 days or w/e it is referring era's or periods of times.

alaqa also means a leach like substance. Embyro's look like leaches.

Quran 67:5 "And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

It says it will punish satan with the same substance that stars are made up from. Fire hotter then anything on earth.

I am SOOO happy you brought up the light thing.

Look up this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2oxoagQbM&feature=channel_video_title

Every living and nonliving thing including you and I and the earth and the sun was made up from light using the equation E = MC^2 back when the Big Bang happened.

So this qualifies as some sort of proof? Call me unimpressed.

Do Muslims value faith as highly as Christians? Doesn't faith require lack of proof?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Oh please, atheism is just as much a religion as anything else. It requires faith and devotion to believe in it. Heck, I think it requires more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is one. Even the demons believe.



/I still <3 you OneBrow. Can you please make your avatar Anthony Davis btw....it will make me giggle profusely.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hantlers again.

 

[Scat]

Atheism may not be a religion per se but it is most definitely a belief system. Atheists forcing their beliefs onto Christians is just as egregious as Christians forcing their beliefs on atheists.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

So this qualifies as some sort of proof? Call me unimpressed.

Do Muslims value faith as highly as Christians? Doesn't faith require lack of proof?

In Islam there is a concept called Taqwa which is the oneness of God. The Qur'an is believed to be the direct word of God and if we are able to prove a part of it wrong we are given enough proof to not believe it. In Christianity it can be said that it was a poor translation etc, or that it was accounted slightly incorrectly since it was written years later.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It is unfortunate that Ive been busy studying for midterms lately, or I wouldnt be letting the Black Swordsman embarrass my faith as much as he has.


Ill try and keep this quite concise:

1) It is incredibly difficult to base somewhat science-related verses in the Quran and apply them into our modern world, when we are looking at the english translations of the Quran. A lot of words in Arabic do not transfer into english, and therefore there are some ill-suiting synonyms, such as "days", that are sometimes used in english translations, that sort of detract from the worth of the scripture. I know this could be interpreted as a cop-out, but I am of the opinion that it isnt
2) You are all MUCH better off doing a simple google search as to how the Quran and Modern science exhibit some sort of scientific similarities, than listening to the Black Swordsman. The guys condescending tone is even unbearable to me, even though I share the same faith as him. Heres an example of what I would consider to at least be an interesting link: https://www.quranandscience.com/human/205-the-sensation-of-skin-pain.html
quranandscience.com is decently informative, and the bias isnt too heavy from what I have encountered.
3) I think there was a poster earlier in the thread that said that its different if muslims embrace extremeism, as opposed to if a christian embraces extremeism, because muhammad himself was a murderer. Dont know what to say to that, so I will post links instead, and hopefully they can do the speaking for me.

https://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism_verse.htm

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?
Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties

A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Conclusion

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

Now, for some quran verses that I enjoy:

And dispute ye not with the People of the Book (Book, meaning Testaments), except with means better [than meer dispute] unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong [and injury]: but say, "we believe in the revelation in which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)

And argue not with the People of the Book unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender

-29:46


These quotes will hopefully douse a lot of the intolerant fire that Islam seems to get from the western media. In fact, my faith was probably one of the most tolerant, during and about 1000 years after its conception. The arab world over the past 50 years has unfortunately reversed this process completely, however.

Lastly:

Verse 5:32 of the Quran is on capital punishment. It mentions two cases where capital punishment is allows.
The Qur'an legislates the death penalty for murder, although forgiveness and compassion are strongly encouraged. The murder victim's family is given a choice to either insist on the death penalty, or to pardon the perpetrator and accept monetary compensation for their loss.
Spreading mischief in the land is generally interpreted to mean those crimes that affect the community as a whole, and destabilize the society. Crimes that have fallen under this description have included:
• Treason / Apostacy (when one leaves the faith and joins the enemy in fighting against the Muslim community)
• Terrorism
• Land, sea, or air piracy
• Rape
• Adultery
The following verse, 5:33, applies to those that wage was against the Muslims. The verse prescribes death as one of the punishments but not as the only one. After the “Battle of the trench”, in which Jews living under the Prophet joined forces with the opposing army to wage war against him, the Prophet decided to exile the Jews that conspired against him. He did not kill them. Nor did the Prophet kill the pagans that lived in Makkah, who had been waging war against him for years, when he conquered it.
“Permission (to fight) is given to those on whom war is made, because they are oppressed. And Allah is able to assist them — those who are driven from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah.” (22:39-40)
“And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors.” (2:190)
“And if they incline to peace, you must also incline to it, and trust in Allah.” (8:61)
Your conclusion that Islam declares war against anyone who isn’t a Muslim is incorrect. Islam teaches tolerance of other religions.
“If anyone of the idolaters seek your protection, protect him till he hears the word of Allah, then convey him to his place of safety. This is because they are a people who have no knowledge.” (9:6)
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. (60:8)
The Quran does not ask Muslims to fight and convert everyone to Islam. As can be seen from the following verse
“If they accept Islam, then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, your duty (O Prophet) is only to deliver the message.” (3:20)
Let me continue by mentioning some of the sayings of the Prophet regarding tolerance. pay attention to this, Hantlers
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.”
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet."
"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God."
"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise."
Now that I’ve cleared up your misconceptions, I have to ask how you can judge an entire book based on four sentences? Have you read the Quran? Have you looked into the details of the verses you mentioned? How can one judge an entire book by just four sentences?
The fact that needs to be understood is that religiously oriented violence has by no means been confined to Islam. In the United States, abortion clinics have been bombed and their doctors shot because, to the perpetrators, the Christian Bible commands it. Jim Jones killed or required the suicide of his own followers at his camp in Guyana, and David Koresh did nothing to prevent the mass death of his followers at Waco. Lets not forget issues such as the molestation of young boys by priests at several different Churches, the cannibalism committed by the Crusaders during the first Crusade and the acts of the BTK killer who was the head of a church.
Muslims don’t blame Christians or the Bible for all these actions. They blame religious extremists.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Im glad you found the time between studying your midterms to type out 4 or 5 sentences and then copy and paste walls of texts from other sources.

Also I am happy you managed to find two whole verses that you finally were able to enjoy from the Qur'an.

 

[One Brow]

It requires faith and devotion to believe in it. Heck, I think it requires more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is one. Even the demons believe.

I don't believe in atheism. I'm an atheist, because I don't believe.

Those putative demons who believe are fictional. It's like saying Paul Bunyan believed Babe the Big Blue Ox was real.

 

[One Brow]

Why can't a coach lead his team in prayer? The coach is an individual with Constitutional rights as well.

It's nice to see you support the rights of Muslim public school coaches coaches to pull out the prayer mats and have their entire team pray towards Mecca. I'm sure you'd be pleased that coach was teaching your kids to pray like a true Muslim.

Or, maybe you meant that only the Muslim kids would be engaging in that prayer, with all the other kids being told their religion was less worthy by their coach (by silence, if in no other way).

Do you even want tol get into what an atheist coach would be allowed to tell your kids as a pre-game meditation?

Or, maybe you're just so full of priviledge you can't see for Scat.

Your kids are being protected, just as much as anyones.

 

[LogGrad98]

Qur'an 22:47 a day in Jannah is like a thousand years on earth in which we count. The arabic word they use for day is simply a period of time or an era. When it states 6 days or 2 days or w/e it is referring era's or periods of times.

alaqa also means a leach like substance. Embyro's look like leaches.

Quran 67:5 "And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

It says it will punish satan with the same substance that stars are made up from. Fire hotter then anything on earth.

I am SOOO happy you brought up the light thing.

Look up this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2oxoagQbM&feature=channel_video_title

Every living and nonliving thing including you and I and the earth and the sun was made up from light using the equation E = MC^2 back when the Big Bang happened.

So does the moon reflect light (noor) or is it made of light? Does Allah reflect light (using the same word as for the moon - noor) our is he made of light. Seems the muslims use translational inaccuracies every bit as much as the Christians when trying to explain incongruous passages of scripture.

 

[One Brow]

Atheism may not be a religion per se but it is most definitely a belief system. Atheists forcing their beliefs onto Christians is just as egregious as Christians forcing their beliefs on atheists.

I agree. Current US law forbids atheists to teach atheism in public schools. Sauce for the goose, etc.