Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)
- Thread starter udflyer
- Start date
You're being kind.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Well I guess I am Hayward's agent right now and Franklin is Lindsey.
Okay, here's one possible rationale for locking up Hayward with an extension. I may be reaching here, but whatever. Here goes:
We might be able to draft not one, but two excellent wing players in this upcoming draft, say both Jabari Parker and Aaron Harrison, James Young or Wayne Selden. Hence we might then want to trade Hayward after the draft. Yet, given the players we've just drafted, other teams will go after Hayward as a restricted FA because they are confident the Jazz won't match due to the players we've just drafted. This turns out to be the case, the Jazz don't match a big offer on Hayward, and Hayward walks for nothing. However, if we have Hayward on a longer term deal, we can trade him to any team in the league any time during the next year, and we can let the bidding begin.
In other words, having Hayward locked in on an extension, gives the Jazz a bit more flexibility to use Hayward as a trade asset if they want. Of course, this assumes Hayward's contract is reasonable and movable.
We might be able to draft not one, but two excellent wing players in this upcoming draft, say both Jabari Parker and Aaron Harrison, James Young or Wayne Selden. Hence we might then want to trade Hayward after the draft. Yet, given the players we've just drafted, other teams will go after Hayward as a restricted FA because they are confident the Jazz won't match due to the players we've just drafted. This turns out to be the case, the Jazz don't match a big offer on Hayward, and Hayward walks for nothing. However, if we have Hayward on a longer term deal, we can trade him to any team in the league any time during the next year, and we can let the bidding begin.
In other words, having Hayward locked in on an extension, gives the Jazz a bit more flexibility to use Hayward as a trade asset if they want. Of course, this assumes Hayward's contract is reasonable and movable.
$11 - $12 mil. That's what he's asking for now, so make him prove it.
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];683202 said:
The irony of the biggest Curry homer has overcome me with . . . . I agree he isn't close to sixth best though.
****er Greg Miller can't afford me homie.
I think you caught it all.
b_line
Well-Known Member
I think players with those numbers are near max guys. Paul George didn't even have those numbers in points or assists. Rudy gay is another example, and he is making like 15mil per year. Luol deng is a similar guy, making over 14 per year.
Hayward will produce in the vicinity of 18 points, 4 assists and 4 rebounds this year. His shooting will be around 46-47% and he will shoot around 40% from three. He handles the ball and initiates offense reasonably well, and plays above average defense. What other guys in the league will give you that same production for less than 13 million per season?
I am asking seriously here. I have casually looked at a few guys, but really I have not found a comparable player to Hayward who makes less than 15 million per year.
Gvc, Franklin, help us out here. Who, in terms of salary and production should we be comparing Hayward to? And why, based on comparables, is he not worth more than $10 mm per year?
MVP
Well-Known Member
I suggest you check his preseason FG%. With increase usage his FG dropped and his TO increased. Exactly like numerous posters here predicted. No way in hell he will be shooting 46-47FG%. No freaking way. Just wait til teams start preparing for him specifically and sending him to the left side where he can't make bucket to save his life.
If you're talking about points and rebounds, you could compare Hayward to Gallinari, DeMar DeRozan or Tyreke Evans, all of whom earn in the $10 - $11.8mm range. The question is whether Hayward's versatility and playmaking makes him special.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Last year, playing off-ball with the first unit or running the floor with a well rested second unit, he shot .435. If he's going to be initiating like he has in the preseason, and playing against starters, that number should go down (look at his preseason numbers).
Bringing up Rudy Gay is appropriate. He's a player who was never quite able to get over the hump and become an elite iso/PnR scorer. He's still much better than Gordo, but everyone recognizes at this point that he's ridiculously overpaid.
And you're asking the wrong questions. The Jazz should be concerned about maximizing their assets. Gordo is neither an elite, physical shut-down perimeter defender nor a guy who can get you buckets when the defense is set/the offense breaks down/the shot clock is running short. He's a terrific off-ball scorer, a good defender, a glue guy. The problem with that is, to contend you need that top end talent (Favors may provide this in the form of rebounding and rim protection, which is why he shoul dbe paid more than Gordo). Once you have that talent, a player like Gordo becomes a luxury. That is, the drop-off in value as complementary players from Gordo to Redick/Dudley/Martell Webster/Danny Green is not significant.
Yes, if you don't care about contending, and only want to make sure you have enough talent not to suck, making risky moves in favor of safe ones (trading Gordo v. overpaying Gordo) gives you a better chance of getting you where you want to go. If that's what the Jazz plan is, I have no idea why they didn't re-sign Paul Millsap and Demarre Carroll, however.
With that said, the Jazz FO likely has a much better idea of how valued Gordo is by other teams. It may still be better to overpay now if you know you can get a good return in a trade at the deadline/in the summer.
A year from now, what used to be called the Core 4 will be the Core 8, and probably two or more players will need to be traded. Extending Hayward is a good move, but the Jazz aren't desperate and have little incentive to overpay.