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Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

akirac73 said:
For whatever reason, some Jazz fans have become far too emotionally attached to Hayward and have totally lost perspective on his true value. I've seen some of the Hayward fanboys pimping him as the next Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Jeff Hornacek, Manu Ginobili, etc. Please...how about a realistic comparison like, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Landry Fields or Danny Green. It's like a parent thinking his child is the next Michael Phelps just because they can swim a couple laps in a pool. Let's temper down the expectations and see Gordon for what he really is: A smart, solid role player that doesn't do anything extremely well, but can be a great complimentary player as a 2nd or 3rd option.
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Landry Fields? He is no where near as good as Hayward. I agree he is not the next Bird or Pippen, but let's be realistic about this. He is better than Dunleavy Jr, and way better than Landry Fields. Danny Green is not a real comparison either. Green had one good playoff series, not much else.

Comparing him to these guys is just as bad as the guys comparing him to Bird and Pippen. Nobody on this board thinks Hayward is a max player. All they are saying is that he is a good player, and they want the Jazz to keep him, even if it costs a little bit more than what online message board posters think it should...
 
NUMBERICA said:
IF TRUE (huge caveat), that is amazing.
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It is amazing, but one thing to consider is that teams don't even bat an eye at giving a big contract to a modestly skilled guy who is over 6'10". Hayward has to fight for the money, because teams view him as replaceable. Whether he is replaceable or not is another question. (His production probably is, but one question no one is asking in this is that young guys take a while to develop and get the system. Favors is interested in keeping the young core together for reason. He knows that they have put in the time to become a winning team. Everyone is clamoring for Wiggins or Parker, but what no one is saying is that they are only 19 years old. Even LeBron didn't really start winning for a few years.)
 
b_line said:
I think what you meant is that they didn't play on the same team... playoff records are meaningless when your whole team is built around an inefficient center, and an undersized power forward.
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What about playoff stats? Are they meaningless too.
That shooting percentage is pretty bad
 
fishonjazz said:
What about playoff stats? Are they meaningless too.
That shooting percentage is pretty bad
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Yes it is bad, but you can't call a 4 game sample size "playoff stats". And you especially can't call them that when your best offensive weapon basically tells the other team he gives up, giving the opposing team license to sag off of him, and only guard the players that are going to score, or care about the game.

yes, I get that Hayward sucked in the playoffs, but lets wait to compare him to anyone who has had playoff success until he actually plays some playoff games with a team built for the playoffs. I get that he sucked that series, but you can not just ignore the other 200 or so games he has played and say he is that player because of 4 playoff appearances.
 
I think G-Time will be a Jazzman beyond this season regardless, but I really hope the deal gets done before the deadline regardless. I think it would be good for both parties. I'd offer him 4 yr/$52M with a player option for a 5th year. I think he would accept that now and would likely command more on an inflated RFA deal next offseason, meaning the organization would likely save $ by getting the deal done now.
 
b_line said:
Landry Fields? He is no where near as good as Hayward. I agree he is not the next Bird or Pippen, but let's be realistic about this. He is better than Dunleavy Jr, and way better than Landry Fields. Danny Green is not a real comparison either. Green had one good playoff series, not much else.

Comparing him to these guys is just as bad as the guys comparing him to Bird and Pippen. Nobody on this board thinks Hayward is a max player. All they are saying is that he is a good player, and they want the Jazz to keep him, even if it costs a little bit more than what online message board posters think it should...
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When you say Hayward is "way better" what are you basing that on? Actual production on the floor? A particular skill set? Emotion? All the guys I listed are jack of all trades type players but aren't at an elite level at any particular skillset (although Danny Green is one of the elite 3 point shooters in the league). None can be considered first options on their team, all are big, fairly athletic wing players. I forgot to throw in Wilson Chandler as another comparable player. All of these guys earn in the 4-6 Million range so, $10M/year is more than fair in my eyes for Hayward.
 
Max I would go at this stage is 4yrs/$44m. Otherwise, let him prove that he can be a #1, lead the team, and be an All Star, if he wants more. Let him become a RFA.
 
akirac73 said:
When you say Hayward is "way better" what are you basing that on? Actual production on the floor? A particular skill set? Emotion? All the guys I listed are jack of all trades type players but aren't at an elite level at any particular skillset (although Danny Green is one of the elite 3 point shooters in the league). None can be considered first options on their team, all are big, fairly athletic wing players. I forgot to throw in Wilson Chandler as another comparable player. All of these guys earn in the 4-6 Million range so, $10M/year is more than fair in my eyes for Hayward.
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Landry Fields peaked as a rookie, and averaged less than 5 ppg last year. He sucks. This comp, even to Danny Green and Dunleavy, and especially Hayward, is laughable.

Danny Green is not really comparable as far as overall production, and has only averaged over 10 ppg once in a four year career. Hayward has been consistently better throughout his career.

Dunleavy was actually pretty damn good in his career, and has fallen off since a back injury, iirc. If Hayward turns out as good as Dunleavy Jr. in his best years, we have a good player. Hayward will likely be a better passer than Dunleavy Jr was, and about even in most other areas. I think Hayward will have a better career though, because he is off to a better start than Dunleavy.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
George's firs playoff experience was very bad the year before as well
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In their 2nd year in the league at the same age neither did well. 11-12 year

PG wasn't good: FG 39% 3P 27% in 33 mpg.

But Hayward's was D-league bad: FG 18% 3P .08% in 31 mpg.
 
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