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Jazz MPG rankings

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zman1527

Well-Known Member
Name Rank MPG
Hayward 21st 36.1
Favors 81st 31.5
Burke 93rd 30.7
Jefferson 136 27.3
Burks 138 27.2
Williams 140 27.1
Kanter 158 25.4

These guys are so young, why aren't more of them in the top 20?
 
Jefferson with more minutes than burks is just plain stupid.

I remember when everyone was saying that it doesnt matter if a player starts or comes off the bench.... it does.

When you start, you are basically guaranteed a certain amount of minutes regardless of how you play.
Bench minutes get adjusted based on performance usually..... so the minutes are alot more inconsistent
 
fishonjazz said:
Jefferson with more minutes than burks is just plain stupid.

I remember when everyone was saying that it doesnt matter if a player starts or comes off the bench.... it does.

When you start, you are basically guaranteed a certain amount of minutes regardless of how you play.
Bench minutes get adjusted based on performance usually..... so the minutes are alot more inconsistent
Click to expand...

27 minutes is low end starter minutes. It could be worse. I'm fine with it as long as he's starting next year.
 
I'm not sure if I want Burks' minutes to go up or down slightly (probably a game-to-game decision). Other than that I think those mpg numbers are nearly perfect.

Only other critique I might add is taking some of Kanter's minutes and giving them to Gobert, but he's young and raw so no need to force playing time instead of letting playing time come to him.
 
fishonjazz said:
I remember when everyone was saying that it doesnt matter if a player starts or comes off the bench.... it does.

When you start, you are basically guaranteed a certain amount of minutes regardless of how you play.
Click to expand...
How many minutes is a starter guaranteed under Corbin? Did you check? Are you just assuming this is a big deal based on absolutely nothing?


The Jazz have played 24 games since Trey and Marvin entered the starting lineup, and 19 with a starting lineup of Trey-Gordo-RJ-Marv-Favors.


In those 24 games:

A bench player got more minutes than at least 1 starter in 17 games.
A starter played 24 minutes or less (from ESPN boxscores...so these minutes are rounded) in 14 games.
A starter played 18 minutes or less in 4 games (low of 12 minutes).
A bench player played 30 or more minutes in 9 games.
A bench player played 32 or more minutes in 5 games (high of 37 minutes).

If you add the time elapsed before the first substitution in both the first and third quarters (not due to fouls), the sum is less than 14 minutes in 13 games (low of 7:07).


In those 19 games (with the Trey-Gordo-RJ-Marv-Favors starting lineup):

A bench player got more minutes than at least 1 starter in 14 games.
A starter played 24 minutes or less (from ESPN boxscores...so these minutes are rounded) in 12 games.
A starter played 18 minutes or less in 3 games (low of 12 minutes).
A bench player played 30 or more minutes in 8 games.
A bench player played 32 or more minutes in 4 games (high of 34).

If you add the time elapsed before the first substitution in both the first and third quarters (not due to fouls), the sum is less than 14 minutes in 13 games (low of 8:17).


It's clear that Corbin has no problem playing a starter less than 20 minutes or a bench player more than 30. IF the Jazz draft one of the top 3/4s in the upcoming draft, and that player makes sense in the starting lineup, at least 1 of Burke, Burks, Hayward, Favors or Kanter will have to come off the bench.

Bringing 2 of the Jazz's 5 young players off the bench allows ALL 5 of them ample opportunity with the ball in their hands. Burks has also been given the opportunity to play with starters to close many games, playing quite well off-ball. In recent games, as Kanter has started to look more comfortable and confident, Corbin has been playing Favors and Kanter together for stretches in the 4th quarter.

How many times do these basic FACTS need to be repeated? Are you really this ****ing willfully ignorant/stupid?
 
Kanter needs his minutes back. Develop him. Give him green light to shoot some 3's.

Develop Burks.

If the FO doesn't want this to be a wasted season (subpar draft pick/ less than expected player development), then the starting line from here on out should be Burke, Burks, Hayward, Kanter, Favors w/ Rudy, Marvin, and Jeremy being 6-7-8 men.

We seriously need to stop showcasing RJ under this pretense that we can flip him for a second round pick. The future would be better served by developing our own guys.

The argument is that:

1. A lineup of Hayward, Burke, and Burks won't work because it's too many ball handlers, but I think that is exactly why it would work. gordon and Alec are also excellent slashers, so while one is handling the ball, the other two could be slashing to the hoop for buckets or drop offs, or to the perimiter to get open 3's or draw the defense in to free up easy post passes.
2. They say Derrick and Enes don't play as well together, but I don't think they've been given enough time. Kanter has such a nice shooting stroke, I don't see why He couldn't be given the green light to stretch it on offense, while also playing in the post on other posessions. I think the reason why it hasn't worked so far is because Favors was taking a lot of jumpers out by the FT line at start of season, and so was Kanter, so there was no space, but that shot isn't the prime of either on of their games--kanter can stretch farther and also bang inside, and favors can dunk on people at will. The reason why it hasn't worked has more to do with the coaches not showing them how their games compliment eachother. Kanter can create space for Favors, or be a second wrecking ball with Favors inside dominating the glass-- they can't both be at FT line shooing jumpers.

I truly believe our young core has games that compliment each other, but haven't been given the opportunity to iron out the kinks together. Such a disservice, such a waste. They will struggle as they learn together, which would only help our draft stock. Can't understand why the FO is sitting idly by.

I got my pitchfork, who's coming with me!
 
I want to see hay, burks and burke playing 40 mins a night, w/ kanter and favors playing 36 each, which leaves 48 minutes to be divided among jeremy, gobert and marvin.

I like garrett, but he doesn't need to play. both Alec and Gordon can facilitate when Trey is resting. We need to copy the Pacers model of a smaller rotation. Our rotations have been way to big to do anyone any service. The excess guys should just be around to practice with team and in case of injury, nothing more.
 
The most important thing for Enes this season is that I think he has quit thinking too hard about how good he looks on the court and much more focused on playing the game. I saw some really comfortable kick-outs from the low post from Enes and I think they might have become assists if we had better 3 point shooters with quick release.
 
GVC said:
How many minutes is a starter guaranteed under Corbin? Did you check? Are you just assuming this is a big deal based on absolutely nothing?


The Jazz have played 24 games since Trey and Marvin entered the starting lineup, and 19 with a starting lineup of Trey-Gordo-RJ-Marv-Favors.


In those 24 games:

A bench player got more minutes than at least 1 starter in 17 games.
A starter played 24 minutes or less (from ESPN boxscores...so these minutes are rounded) in 14 games.
A starter played 18 minutes or less in 4 games (low of 12 minutes).
A bench player played 30 or more minutes in 9 games.
A bench player played 32 or more minutes in 5 games (high of 37 minutes).

If you add the time elapsed before the first substitution in both the first and third quarters (not due to fouls), the sum is less than 14 minutes in 13 games (low of 7:07).


In those 19 games (with the Trey-Gordo-RJ-Marv-Favors starting lineup):

A bench player got more minutes than at least 1 starter in 14 games.
A starter played 24 minutes or less (from ESPN boxscores...so these minutes are rounded) in 12 games.
A starter played 18 minutes or less in 3 games (low of 12 minutes).
A bench player played 30 or more minutes in 8 games.
A bench player played 32 or more minutes in 4 games (high of 34).

If you add the time elapsed before the first substitution in both the first and third quarters (not due to fouls), the sum is less than 14 minutes in 13 games (low of 8:17).


It's clear that Corbin has no problem playing a starter less than 20 minutes or a bench player more than 30. IF the Jazz draft one of the top 3/4s in the upcoming draft, and that player makes sense in the starting lineup, at least 1 of Burke, Burks, Hayward, Favors or Kanter will have to come off the bench.

Bringing 2 of the Jazz's 5 young players off the bench allows ALL 5 of them ample opportunity with the ball in their hands. Burks has also been given the opportunity to play with starters to close many games, playing quite well off-ball. In recent games, as Kanter has started to look more comfortable and confident, Corbin has been playing Favors and Kanter together for stretches in the 4th quarter.

How many times do these basic FACTS need to be repeated? Are you really this ****ing willfully ignorant/stupid?
Click to expand...


I see you like to complicate the obvious. Playing any player who isn't named Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burke, Burks, or Gobert for extended minutes takes away from the minutes these players could play and learn on the court and in high pressure action.

All of these players have done enough waiting and earning their time. They're young, they could play more than they're playing. Their success helps the future, their failure helps the future.
 
GVC said:
You can not find an NBA team/coach that has done anything remotely close to that in the history of the league. Holy ****.
Click to expand...

As a collective, you are absolutely right. As individuals? There has been a lot of young players who have played extended minutes in the league's history. We have a lot of them, more than most.
 
When a player starts they are basically guaranteed the first 8 minutes in the 1st and 4th quarters..... even if jeffy has 10 to's and goes 0 for 10 from the field he will get those minutes.... same with marv. There is a built in minimum.

A bench player (alec and enes) comes in and plays horribly and just put back on the bench in favor or the starter.

This isnt just a corbin thing but a basketball thing at all level

Bench guys are supposed to be energy guys and sparks ect so if they come in and kick *** then thier minutes usually go up over the norm and if they suck then they can go way under the norm (see alec burks against memphis and his 16 minutes)

The starters are basically guaranteed 16 minutes no matter what because they get those automatic minutes at the beggining of the game and the beginning of the second half regardless of thier play, matchups etc.

That is the biggest difference between bench and starters imo.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I see you like to complicate the obvious. Playing any player who isn't named Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burke, Burks, or Gobert for extended minutes takes away from the minutes these players could play and learn on the court and in high pressure action.

All of these players have done enough waiting and earning their time. They're young, they could play more than they're playing. Their success helps the future, their failure helps the future.
Click to expand...

Basically this
 
But the starters get to do the little video intro thing at the start of the game on tv where they get to say thier name and thier college they went to.

i got ya on that one gvc ;-)
 
fishonjazz said:
Honestly... not really
Sorry it was too long and im working so i didnt have time.
Click to expand...
The average sum of time elapsed before the first sub in the first and third quarters (not due to foul trouble) with the regular starting lineup this season has been almost exactly 14 minutes. That's biased upward (because some of the substitutions due to fouls would have occurred without fouls before the second substitution), so 13 minutes guaranteed for starters under Corbin is roughly the right approximation. That leaves as much as 35 minutes for bench players. There are only 32 players who have averaged 35+ minutes per game this season (basically, one per team), and Gordo is one of them.

Not starting is not a problem. This is even more true if the Jazz are expecting a franchise talent in the upcoming draft.

Do you think Pops has been doing the wrong thing bringing Manu off the bench? Is either Alec or Kanter the equal of Manu in terms of talent?
 
Sexual Favors said:
I see you like to complicate the obvious.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I live in reality, not some video game fantasy, where I know more than every professional coach that has ever lived, and people (read: Players) don't respond to incentives AND can learn anything at any pace at any point in time.
 
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