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Longest Thread Ever

“It was at a church service in Munich that I saw him, a former S.S. man who had stood guard at the shower room door in the processing center at Ravensbruck. He was the first of our actual jailers that I had seen since that time. And suddenly it was all there – the roomful of mocking men, the heaps of clothing, Betsie's pain-blanched face.

He came up to me as the church was emptying, beaming and bowing. “How grateful I am for your message, Fraulein.” He said. “To think that, as you say, He has washed my sins away!” His hand was thrust out to shake mine. And I, who had preached so often to the people in Bloemendaal the need to forgive, kept my hand at my side.

Even as the angry, vengeful thoughts boiled through me, I saw the sin of them. Jesus Christ had died for this man; was I going to ask for more? Lord Jesus, I prayed, forgive me and help me to forgive him. I tried to smile, I struggles to raise my hand. I could not. I felt nothing, not the slightest spark of warmth or charity. And so again I breathed a silent prayer. Jesus, I prayed, I cannot forgive him. Give me Your forgiveness.

As I took his hand the most incredible thing happened. From my shoulder along my arm and through my hand a current seemed to pass from me to him, while into my heart sprang a love for this stranger that almost overwhelmed me. And so I discovered that it is not on our forgiveness any more than on our goodness that the world's healing hinges, but on His. When He tells us to love our enemies, He gives, along with the command, the love itself.”
― Corrie ten Boom

There is something in this experience of Corrie ten Boom as explained here that I can vouch for, because it has common elements with my own experience. I could not doubt the truth of this story as she tells it, for unless she had experienced it, she could not have told it as she did.

So I did a google search, so I could tell my kids more about Corrie ten Boom, and found this:

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cfp51vLZb4

This is one of those "What? You too?" things. . . . .
 
cs-lewis-quote-on-friendship.jpg

rep worthy. I guess I'll have to go out passing rep around for a while. . . . .then come back. . . . .
 
Doesn't look equal to me, and if you've ever ridden a teeter totter with one side heaver, or one side moved in it just doesn't ride the same.


Women are nurturing, men are soft. Women are kind, men are weak. Women are thoughtful, men are indecisive. Women are bold, men are pigs.

Fun game.

I don't think women have less social power than men, hence I don't agree that women are more "caged" than men.

Riding differently is not necessarily a bad thing. I agree that patriarchy hurts men as well.

As for social power, there is a huge difference in the power level between being able to decide something and being able to influence a decision, particularly if you're not even in the meetings where the decisions are made. Whatever their influence, as long as women are not allowed to priests/bishops/cardinals/prophets/ministers/clerics/shamans/etc., they will have less power in that particular religion. If you are OK with that, just be OK with it. Don't pretend it's not true, that just insults me and, more importantly, demeans you.
 
Or it's true and it's just being played out, and it is natural.

Have you seen the messages out there? I'm much less worried about messages like this that occur millions of times than the other messages that are out there billions and trillions of times that do some real damage.... talk about responding to conditioning. I can't watch tv, a movie, listen to music, the radio, read a book or see a commercial without being exposed to some sort of message someone is trying to push on everyone and/or condition people to that is worse than this message. Seriously, I could watch/listen to something for 30 seconds and have it topped. Possibly because I don't have an issue with this particular message for the most part, but even if I did... it would be nowhere near the other false messages out there imo.

What's true is that some men are very naturally nurturing and home-oriented, and some men are not. Some women are very naturally career-minded and good providers, and some are not. We try to box up the nurturing men and the career-minded women into the roles in which they do not fit, to keep our model of natural alive, rather than allow the reality.

I agree there are many sorts of negative messaging. I do not agree that since there is starvation in Africa, we don't need to help the poor in the USA.
 
Riding differently is not necessarily a bad thing. I agree that patriarchy hurts men as well.

As for social power, there is a huge difference in the power level between being able to decide something and being able to influence a decision, particularly if you're not even in the meetings where the decisions are made. Whatever their influence, as long as women are not allowed to priests/bishops/cardinals/prophets/ministers/clerics/shamans/etc., they will have less power in that particular religion. If you are OK with that, just be OK with it. Don't pretend it's not true, that just insults me and, more importantly, demeans you.

Not sure who you are agreeing with because I did not state that I thought patriarchy hurts men or women, but nice attempt at putting words in my mouth.

You say riding differently is not necessarily a bad thing which is an ambiguous statement. It is not necessarily a good thing. Depends on your perspective doesn't it.

Obviously you and I view power in a very different light. I see this in a similar way as the Jews experience in waiting for their Savior/Messiah/War Leader that would break them free of bondage and make them a power nation in the world. A base misunderstanding of what their Savior would be and what he would be saving them from shaped their view and made it difficult for them to see the real Savior when he got there.

Power and authority are very different things. Power as the world views it is much different than true power. Priesthood authority is much different than priesthood power. Christ came with both power and authority. While the authority was necessary for him, it was his power that did the work. It was his power that was behind the miracles, behind the changing of people, behind what he taught. He did not come to kill, or be king of the country, or be a better version of Alexander the great. His real work was to change people, lift people, help people, free them in other ways.

In this same way every person has that same opportunity to have the power to shape lives, lift people, change people, and make a real difference in this world. Christ himself said something about his disciples doing greater miracles than he has done, and he did many physical miracles even to the point of raising the dead. The greater miracles beyond any of those physical healing miracles, is having a hand in changing people's hearts, helping to change who they are. That is more of a miracle than healing a disease, in the grande scheme of things.

Of course these ideas are imo... and the gospel of TM. Take that as you will.
 
What's true is that some men are very naturally nurturing and home-oriented, and some men are not. Some women are very naturally career-minded and good providers, and some are not. We try to box up the nurturing men and the career-minded women into the roles in which they do not fit, to keep our model of natural alive, rather than allow the reality.

I agree there are many sorts of negative messaging. I do not agree that since there is starvation in Africa, we don't need to help the poor in the USA.

I see you agreeing and disagreeing with someone.

I did make a statement about negative messages, so you can agree with me on that.

No clue who you are not in agreement with on the next line because I have made no statement about it.

You trying to put me in a box? If not, you might want to be more clear as to who you are agreeing/disagreeing with.
 
No clue who you are not in agreement with on the next line because I have made no statement about it.

It was a metaphor. There are messages we both agree are bad. That's no reason for me to ignore other, possibly less frequent messages that are bad.
 
Not sure who you are agreeing with because I did not state that I thought patriarchy hurts men or women, but nice attempt at putting words in my mouth.

You don't think calling men soft, indecisive, weak, etc., when they exhibit traits traditionally associated with women, is hurtful?

You say riding differently is not necessarily a bad thing which is an ambiguous statement. It is not necessarily a good thing. Depends on your perspective doesn't it.

Exactly so, which is why everyone should be determining where the fulcrum rests in their own life.

Power and authority are very different things. Power as the world views it is much different than true power. Priesthood authority is much different than priesthood power.

Authority makes applying your power easier, and allows you to spread the effects further with the same effort.

I haven't forgotten the other thread. I am thinking about it. Lots of good stuff in there.
 
It was a metaphor. There are messages we both agree are bad. That's no reason for me to ignore other, possibly less frequent messages that are bad.

Sure, as long as you don't try to make it sound like you are in disagreement with me about said message, as I don't think "since there is starvation in Africa, we don't need to help the poor in the USA."
 
You don't think calling men soft, indecisive, weak, etc., when they exhibit traits traditionally associated with women, is hurtful?
I didn't say one way or the other, so there is nothing to agree with.


Exactly so, which is why everyone should be determining where the fulcrum rests in their own life.

What you are not addressing is the fact that all of these individual fulcrum's are interconnected and moving one affects them all. This is like living in an HOA, you all may be individuals, but each of you as individuals have a say in the association as a whole as well. It's more than just a "me" thing.

Authority makes applying your power easier, and allows you to spread the effects further with the same effort.

Yes, actual authority is important. A key point in this is that the source of the authority comes from God in this instance. If the Church gives authority to someone that God is not actually backing, it turns into apparent authority where it looks like they are an agent of God, but they truly have no legitimate/actual authority. That can cause problems. You seem to be implying that this authority can be changed on a whim by man, but the only being that can change this is God. If you do not believe in God in the same way, then you see this from a worldly view.

Question for you. Ghandi, did he have authority? Martin Luther King Jr., did he have authority. Mother Theresa, did she have authority? Confucius, did he have authority? Plato, did he have authority? Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein, Madame Curie, William Shakespeare, Leonardo Da Vinci, Hellen Keller, Thomas Paine, Oprah, Martin Luther... I could go on and on. Was it authority that made them great?

I haven't forgotten the other thread. I am thinking about it. Lots of good stuff in there.

:)
 
Oh Oprah has authority alright. And she got the POWER!
 
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