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[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];798423 said:
It's alllll physiology, broughs. And every single description of it (with the concepts and affects) has its limitations.

'Consciousness' is a concept we use for talking about physiology. But bodies are always capable of more than what we recognize in them; and there are bodies that we can't perceive at all. This excess is what we acknowledge when we say 'spirit' or 'will'.
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What is going on between stimulus----->response
 
One Brow said:
giving up a baby is much harder emotionally than abortion.
Of course, you're concerned about embryos, not the women who carry them, so none of that matters to you.
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That might be true based on denial/rationalization, but

I have no more respect for a female who makes the choice to have her baby killed in her womb based on expectations of emotional difficulty than I would
for a husband who has his wife killed because it would be "harder emotionally" to see her with another man.
 
One Brow said:
than for a lump of flesh smaller than a pinhead.
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https://www.whattoexpect.com/wom/pr...you-get-an-abortion-in-the-united-states.aspx

When considering an abortion, a woman might find herself asking, "How late can you get an abortion?" In the United States, the answer to that question is most often based on viability, which is generally 24 weeks.
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https://www.babycenter.com/slideshow-baby-size

20 weeks: Your baby is about the size of a banana
Your burgeoning baby now measures about 6 1/2 inches from head to bottom or 10 inches from head to heel, and weighs roughly 10 1/2 ounces.

You may wonder why you're seeing two length measurements this week. Until 20 weeks of pregnancy, babies are measured from the top of their head to their "rump." That's because their legs are curled up against their torso during the first half of pregnancy, so they're hard to measure. Starting next week, you'll see only the head-to-heel measurement.

Editors' note: As much time as we spent at the farmer's market and on the USDA site, it wasn't easy to find the perfect produce for every week of development. The banana is just an approximation of length.

See what your baby looks like this week.
Read about your baby's development at 20 weeks.
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https://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

Length of Pregnancy
Most abortions (88%) are obtained in the first trimester of pregnancy. In fact, over half of all abortions are obtained within the first 8 weeks. Fewer than 2% occur at 21 weeks or later.
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8 weeks: Your baby is about the size of a kidney bean
Your little bean is now just over 1/2 inch long and is constantly moving and shifting.

See what your baby looks like this week.
Read about your baby's development at 8 weeks.
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One Brow said:
than for a lump of flesh smaller than a pinhead.
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If you're willing to look at the sites chosen by Panned Parenthood in relation to the racial profile of those areas, you might wanna ask "Why here?". From its outset, Planned Parenthood has been guided by racists who purposefully put the emphasis and opportunity on black populations, just like the way China was targeted and subsized by American corporate charities to adopt the "one child" policy and that under state law, or force of guns.

A fertized embryo at day two has all the potential of any human. Apparently you are a hater of small people. . . . . even small black people.
 
VINYLONE said:
Somewhat related but this is now available on Amazon at an incredibly decent price:

https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Contraceptive-purchase-without-prescription/dp/B003FBI8WS
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Thanks for the opportunity to discuss the philosophy of post-conception human terminations.

I used to work with a lot of very liberal sorts in a university environment. I listened to NPR every day, all day, because that's what everybody wanted to listen to. . . . .

It's not that I hate them now, or anyone else for that matter.

It's all about rubber-meets-the-road truth.

A lot of pretty smart people live entirely in the here-and-now. There's a lot of thinking going on to the point of how there's too many humans of all kinds, how having a kid can mess up a person's life or impact existing priorities. I used to be sorta sophisticated in saying people oughtta be free to make their own decisions, that nobody should have unwanted kids, that we all oughta . . . . yadda yadda yadda. . . . .

Then I sorta realized that wasn't gonna make any difference to anybody. . . . .


Some years ago I saw an ultrasound picture of two little particles the size of a grain of rice. . . . with an obvious hearbeat in each one. . . . .

Sorta knocked the BS right outta me.

The fact is, in nature all populations are gonna overpopulate their niche if nothing checks it. . . . but nature always has some checks. Sometimes it's the resources available, sometimes it's depredation, disease, or even genetic weaknesses. . . ..

In humans, around one in four successful fertilizations of human ova will fail naturally. We can do a lot with medical science to up our survival rate to any age. Our technological progress has enabled the production of more food, fiber, and shelter necessary to human life. Our human population has generally approached the capacity of our production based on our technology. We can moderate our impact on our "niche" with good ecological habits. . . . .

In general, it requires more humans to sustain a higher level of technology, especially as we contemplate space travel, biosphere changes, better methods, and better education for everyone.

I think the Malthusian nightmarists are just not appreciating a lot of facts about how we can do better with more people and better living conditions. . . .

But for me, the fundamental issue of Life is and will always be. . . . .

Are you fer, or agin, it?

So I will phrase my remarks to make it clear. Human beings are a positive asset to all life. About the only caveat to that which I see is just this. . . . we need to reject fascism as proposed under the UN regime.
 
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babe said:
But for me, the fundamental issue of Life is and will always be. . . . .

Are you fer, or agin, it?

So I will phrase my remarks to make it clear. Human beings are a positive asset to all life. About the only caveat to that which I see is just this. . . . we need to reject fascism as proposed under the UN regime.
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If only it was that easy. I support life. Sure. I support and believe in my inalienable right to life. You had an epipheny. I'm happy for you. We have them sometimes. That said, human beings are NOT always a positive asset to life. Some people shouldn't be on this planet.

The killers of Dr. Petit's family comes to mind.
 
VINYLONE said:
If only it was that easy. I support life. Sure. I support and believe in my inalienable right to life. You had an epipheny. I'm happy for you. We have them sometimes. That said, human beings are NOT always a positive asset to life. Some people shouldn't be on this planet.

The killers of Dr. Petit's family comes to mind.
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The word is "epiphany" I believe.

Not sure that really fits. Yah it seemed clear that "a lump of flesh the size of a pinhead" is already a human being.

So let's discuss population genetics. . . ..

Where we impose high health care standards on a population throughout the formative years, we are putting our thumbs, so to speak, on the scales. The result is the survival and propagation of more marginal individuals. Over time this will negatively impact the "quality of life" in any species, from a purely genetic point of view.

Dog breeders, for example, who do this and breed individuals who have survived perhaps only because of vet care, can negatively impact the breed pretty quickly. . . . in a few years of this practice some problems become entrenched in the breed. . . .. hip dysplasia, ectopia, heart murmurs. . . . as well as other problems arising from our practices such as obesity from too much food and too little free time to just be a dog. . . . Maybe our processed food supplies have chemicals in them, or too much fat, or too much protein, or grain mash that is irritating to the gut. . . .

So dogs that were hunters become stupid tail-wagging little endorphin generators that just make us "feel good" for having them around. . . . . Too fat to chase a rabbit with any effect. We have altered the survival and propagation equation. . . . .there will be consequences. . . .

humans need to work. humans need to use their brains to solve problems. A health care program that attempts to care for "the weak", and practices like birth control that impose artificial values on "Life", killing some of the very most healthy individuals, and throwing billions of dollars into making sure some ailing individuals will survive and propagate. . . . . well, that's turning the whole equation for Life upside down, and will make our species unfit or incapable of survival "in the wild" in a few generations.

nature has it's own formula for deciding who should live and who should die. nature has done a better job at making those decisions than any fascist State will ever do. . . .
 
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VINYLONE said:
If only it was that easy. I support life. Sure. I support and believe in my inalienable right to life. You had an epipheny. I'm happy for you. We have them sometimes. That said, human beings are NOT always a positive asset to life. Some people shouldn't be on this planet.

The killers of Dr. Petit's family comes to mind.
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We don't know which ones until they get a chance to live, unless you know of a way to determine which of the unborn are future murderers.
 
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