That’s okay, Quin doesn’t need details or facts, either.
Jazz Sign Rudy Gay
- Thread starter Avery
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Yeah. It really is a Quin issue, which is why the bigger move this off-season is his adjusting. That’s kinda like hanging out hopes on Donovan growing 3 inches.
I've been saying Quin is the main roadblock all summer, but tbf I'm sure Quin is thinking his closing lineup has 3 defenders who can't do anything and his top perimeter defender is getting cooked by Reggie Jackson.
If he starts closing some games with Gay at the 4 so we can cover more space and actually play a connected defense we're in business. I do feel that if we're playing Mitchell, Conley, and Bogey our defensive strategy is going to be "hope they miss" no matter what.
I think the biggest issue is that he’s not willing to commit and tries to straddle two different strategies… or tries to run the same thing with everyone, but instead of having Rudy pick his poison, he puts him in a situation where he can’t do either. That part is just brain dead.
Gay played 250 possessions this year as a small ball 5 and 236 possessions last year for a total of about 100 minutes.
He is a +7 in those minutes and that was on the Spurs who haven’t been very good.
He is a +7 in those minutes and that was on the Spurs who haven’t been very good.
The Jazz Wonderbra
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On certain offseason forums I hear he did GROW 3 inches - spidahung.com
Yep, exactly what I was thinking ... going small against small lineups is good only if going small actually provides something for you... if the smalls you have can actually stay with their assignment. Quin needs to put emphasis on the ability of the perimeter players to play with better effort and better rotations. Just putting Gay at the 5 accomplishes nothing, besides giving yet another target to abuse if the opponent think they have advantage there.
I thought we had to get better on 3 levels this off-season - better talent and versatility to guard perimeter ballhandlers(nope), better focus from the coaching staff on perimeter defense... possibly deploying different schemes(we will see about that, but the personnel we are getting doesn't suggest that), better effort/commitment and overall defensive development from the players(we will see about that). Overall I'm not very optimistic that very much will change.
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Keefe
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Or at least did blow off her ***.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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As I recall they couldn’t secure a rebound to save their lives.
Yep, exactly what I was thinking ... going small against small lineups is good only if going small actually provides something for you... if the smalls you have can actually stay with their assignment. Quin needs to put emphasis on the ability of the perimeter players to play with better effort and better rotations. Just putting Gay at the 5 accomplishes nothing, besides giving yet another target to abuse if the opponent think they have advantage there.
I thought we had to get better on 3 levels this off-season - better talent and versatility to guard perimeter ballhandlers(nope), better focus from the coaching staff on perimeter defense... possibly deploying different schemes(we will see about that, but the personnel we are getting doesn't suggest that), better effort/commitment and overall defensive development from the players(we will see about that). Overall I'm not very optimistic that very much will change.
Someone else said it in a different thread, but it does make me feel uneasy that we have the same tools for the same defense. It's going to be very easy for Quin to do the same thing and cruise to a top 3 defense during the RS. We know what happens in the playoffs...The only difference is that maybe Gay will play some 5, but like you said, it's meaningless unless the defensive principles change. If Reggie Jackson can straight line drive past everyone on the court it doesn't matter if we have 5 perimeter guys. It honestly felt like Gobert was the only one who had a chance to defend anyone 1v1 and once they went away from attacking him directly it was over.
One thing I would add to your list is that we need better defender off the ball. I don't think it's possible to guard 1v1 these days. You're going to have to help somehow and that means you need guys with length, athleticism, smart rotations ect behind the play. Rudy Gay is an upgrade I suppose, but 35 year old Rudy Gay is not going to save your defense. I fear that there's a greater chance he falls into Jazz basketball and defends the way we have the past few seasons.
He's also just a backup. The closing lineup is the same. That means Conley, Mitchell, and Bogey all on the court at the same time. None of them can guard, none of them cover space off the ball, and you're lucky if one of them is able to help on the boards at all. O'Neale takes the toughest assignments, but he still gets cooked by the non tough assignments. I think we need to make a trade to address that closing lineup. We have so much scoring, Gay gives us even more. We need to trade Bogey/Clarkson for someone who can provide defense and potentially close games.
The playoffs are really different, but I also think we'd be a totally different team this playoffs if Mike and Donovan both played (and Rudy Gay will be a huge upgrade over Niang or whatever). Like for many other teams, it will come down to being healthy a lot. We could've played Bucks this summer if Mike Conley was good to go, after all.
Decent looking squad. Definitely did not fix our GIGANTIC GLARING ****ING HOLE WITH NO PERIMETER DEFENSE, but, you know, decent squad.
Handlogten's Heros
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To get a meaningful difference with perimeter defense it will need to come from one of Joe, JC, Mike, Donovan, or Bogey… or you need to replace one of those guys with a defender. Rudy gives you an option to move Bogey if something different came up. I also think you could swap JC for someone like Marcus Smart and address the needs. Adding another perimeter defender in FA is something I definitely support… but that person is cracking the current rotation. I think we are likely done for the most part but still have opportunities if we want to change out one of those parts.
Right, this was never going to be solved with the backup 4/5 spot. It has to come from a significant player...and I don't see the potential for those guys to get better. Mitchell is obviously capable, but he continues to lose interest on that end. If we were hesitant to move Bogey/Clarkson before, I hope signing Gay opens up that possibility. Whether that's something like Bogey for Thad/Nance or Clarkson for Smart we need to execute that type of trade.
Handlogten's Heros
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I’d watch smart… if he gets an extension obviously he’s out… he will want an extension… not sure what the Celtics are doing… been really quiet. If it goes into the season I could see his price dropping quite a bit and you may nab him cheap. Covington is another guy to watch though I think he’s kinda overrated.
Yeah, apparently one of the reasons why they're looking to move him is because he's asking for too much on his extension. Not sure I want him on a rental. Covington is a maybe if Dame gets moved.
I think the timing is good to trade Clarkson/Bogey. Fournier and Hardaway both got paid a ton and that's good news if we want to trade one of them.
Ineptimusprime
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Well, it sounds like we MIGHT sign one more minimum dude that would most assuredly fill this role.
Royce, Gay, and hypothetical new minimum dude certainly is an improvement over just Royce in that department, but MATERIAL improvement in that area was always going to require us to cash-in Ingles or Bogey. I do believe we shopped Ingles and Bogey trying to do just that, but Bogey’s contract is rough to salary match with, and honestly, I think sentiment ultimately won out on keeping Ingles.
With a lineup featuring Gay, Ennis, Royce, and Butler might we would be less susceptible to the Clippers small balling us, so that would be a move in the right direction.
But I agree, a little unsatisfying still. In defense of the FO, we had some problems to fix this offseason, and 3&D wings like we need are the most prized commodity in the NBA right now. Hard to do everything and still stick the landing.
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Ineptimusprime
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Kyle Anderson was fantastic against us in the Playoffs. Would love a Bogey trade centered around Anderson and Melton. Salaries match perfectly, and it would make both teams better, IMO.
Hope we at least picked up the phone.