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Are we really a contender?

Are we still contenders this year?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 21.8%
  • No

    Votes: 47 54.0%
  • Yes, if we shake things up

    Votes: 17 19.5%
  • Don't care/wait and see

    Votes: 4 4.6%

  • Total voters
    87
We haven't fully addressed the perimeter defense liability problem. I think it's better than last season but it's still an issue.
 
We really are a contender. Come on guys. Our wings don't have to be elite defensively for us to win. Our offense has to be the best in the league and we have to play pretty good defense when it matters, which this team can do. And we need everyone to be healthy. The way the fanbase has turned and given up on the team because of a bad stretch in the middle of the season with half the team out with covid is pretty shocking honestly. If the fanbase were the reason a player wanted to leave, I'd understand that at least.
 
We really are a contender. Come on guys. Our wings don't have to be elite defensively for us to win. Our offense has to be the best in the league and we have to play pretty good defense when it matters, which this team can do. And we need everyone to be healthy. The way the fanbase has turned and given up on the team because of a bad stretch in the middle of the season with half the team out with covid is pretty shocking honestly. If the fanbase were the reason a player wanted to leave, I'd understand that at least.
This 1000%

Come on people. This is a good team.

A Small COVID slump doesn't worry me at all. I always knew Gobert was the most important player on this team. If you didn't know that well then good ****ing morning sunshine, this team aint **** without Gobert.
 
This 1000%

Come on people. This is a good team.

A Small COVID slump doesn't worry me at all. I always knew Gobert was the most important player on this team. If you didn't know that well then good ****ing morning sunshine, this team aint **** without Gobert.
If you think that by me saying this I'm saying the Jazz actually aren't very good then go to bed and hopefully don't ever wake up. Gobert is THAT good!

I know we all love offence and all that. The Jazz have built an offensive juggernaut with the addition of the best defensive player in the league to carry them on the other end. It's just so crazy it might just work.

Relax. Re ****ing lax.
 
Pretty crazy that over half of us don't think we are a contender. I guess it depends on your definition. We're obviously not a favorite, but I still don't think we're a full tier before any team besides a completely healthy and meshing Nets team.
 
Pretty crazy that over half of us don't think we are a contender. I guess it depends on your definition. We're obviously not a favorite, but I still don't think we're a full tier before any team besides a completely healthy and meshing Nets team.
Exactly. Phoenix is definitely playing better CURRENTLY, in the regular season. But the Jazz could absolutely compete with them in a playoff series. Honestly, it's a coinflip series. Golden state might be a little better than both teams, probably have a slightly better chance at winning in both series, but they aren't a juggernaut. Both Utah or Phoenix could take them down. There are a lot of teams in the west that are pretty good. But the top four teams (have to include Memphis the way Ja is playing--but we'll see), and maybe the mavs and the clippers if they are healthy, are all probably going to play really competitive, coinflip series. And the East is about even with the West too. There is parity in the nba, what we've all always wanted. And now people want to burn the team down because we aren't a juggernaut ourselves. Every team in the league has serious concerns. Every fanbase has something they are freaking out about. There is no Kevin Durant Golden State. That's ****ing exciting. Let's go!
 
Exactly. Phoenix is definitely playing better CURRENTLY, in the regular season. But the Jazz could absolutely compete with them in a playoff series. Honestly, it's a coinflip series. Golden state might be a little better than both teams, probably have a slightly better chance at winning in both series, but they aren't a juggernaut. Both Utah or Phoenix could take them down. There are a lot of teams in the west that are pretty good. But the top four teams (have to include Memphis the way Ja is playing--but we'll see), and maybe the mavs and the clippers if they are healthy, are all probably going to play really competitive, coinflip series. And the East is about even with the West too. There is parity in the nba, what we've all always wanted. And now people want to burn the team down because we aren't a juggernaut ourselves. Every team in the league has serious concerns. Every fanbase has something they are freaking out about. There is no Kevin Durant Golden State. That's ****ing exciting. Let's go!

I do apreciate your optimism, but am wondering about the basis for it. Despite being the best regular season team in the league last year the Jazz were still swept 3-0 by the Suns last year. The Jazz just lost to Golden State, at home, without Draymond or Klay. The Warriors have made multiple finals appearances and won multiple championships. The Suns just made a finals appearance last year. The Jazz have not been out of the second round of the playoffs since 2007.

I'm not saying the Jazz have no chance against these teams, but I would say our chances are definitely worse than a coin flip.
 
I do apreciate your optimism, but am wondering about the basis for it. Despite being the best regular season team in the league last year the Jazz were still swept 3-0 by the Suns last year. The Jazz just lost to Golden State, at home, without Draymond or Klay. The Warriors have made multiple finals appearances and won multiple championships. The Suns just made a finals appearance last year. The Jazz have not been out of the second round of the playoffs since 2007.

I'm not saying the Jazz have no chance against these teams, but I would say our chances are definitely worse than a coin flip.
The Clippers are a worse matchup for the Jazz than the suns. The Jazz are as good as any team in the league when they play the defensive scheme they want, i.e., rudy in the middle. Teams that have the tools to pull Rudy out of the middle are the teams the Jazz really have to worry about. The Clippers have a deep bench full of athletic wings and can play small. It was a nightmare for the Jazz, and totally neutralized one of their two best players. The other best player was injured, and Conly, their third or fourth best player, was injured. We still should have won. I think that game six blown lead and loss is the worst loss in Jazz history--and I think that largely because, had they won game six i think they would have won game 7, and I think they could have beaten the Suns, if Mitchell and Conley had recovered. The Suns do not have the tools to pull Rudy out of the paint. Their best lineup is one that Rudy can be very effective against. Mitchell/Booker, Gobert/Ayton, Paul/Conley, Bridges/Bogey. We match up fairly evenly against the Suns imo.

The Warriors worry me because they do have the tools to stretch the jazz out and neutralize Gobert. I don't know how to factor Klay into things. Thompson could be the piece that rockets the warriors into clear frontrunner status. But I did not feel like the Jazz were overmatched when they played earlier.
 
Exactly. Phoenix is definitely playing better CURRENTLY, in the regular season. But the Jazz could absolutely compete with them in a playoff series. Honestly, it's a coinflip series. Golden state might be a little better than both teams, probably have a slightly better chance at winning in both series, but they aren't a juggernaut. Both Utah or Phoenix could take them down. There are a lot of teams in the west that are pretty good. But the top four teams (have to include Memphis the way Ja is playing--but we'll see), and maybe the mavs and the clippers if they are healthy, are all probably going to play really competitive, coinflip series. And the East is about even with the West too. There is parity in the nba, what we've all always wanted. And now people want to burn the team down because we aren't a juggernaut ourselves. Every team in the league has serious concerns. Every fanbase has something they are freaking out about. There is no Kevin Durant Golden State. That's ****ing exciting. Let's go!
Tell me - who the hell on the Jazz is guarding Booker AND CP3??? They just made the finals, and have had significant injury time missed by both Booker and Ayton (Ayton got hurt yesterday with an ankle turn), and they still have the best record in the league.
 
lost what now, 5 out of the last 6? And last night against the worst defense in the league, or damn close to it? What the hell is going on? Snyder has lost the team, or he never had them, or something. We have stopped passing the ball, going for nearly 90% iso plays in one form or another, or drive and kick that leads us to pass up open 3 foot bunnies for contested corner 3's (Conley did this last night). What is the game plan anyway? What happened to the "blender"? I haven't even heard Bolerhack say blender in a long time. We were nigh unstoppable when we moved the ball and ran screen sets to get guys open looks. This hero ball/drive and kick/iso **** is not going to win us many games. What the **** is going on?
 
lost what now, 5 out of the last 6? And last night against the worst defense in the league, or damn close to it? What the hell is going on? Snyder has lost the team, or he never had them, or something. We have stopped passing the ball, going for nearly 90% iso plays in one form or another, or drive and kick that leads us to pass up open 3 foot bunnies for contested corner 3's (Conley did this last night). What is the game plan anyway? What happened to the "blender"? I haven't even heard Bolerhack say blender in a long time. We were nigh unstoppable when we moved the ball and ran screen sets to get guys open looks. This hero ball/drive and kick/iso **** is not going to win us many games. What the **** is going on?
Switching defenses neuter the blender style. So then you need something different… so they get the matchup they like and go to work… and by go to work what I mean is Donovan or JC dribble the **** out of the ball and probably shoot a pull-up three or turn it over.
 
Small ball/five out kills our defense… switching style defenses hurt our offense. The teams at the top can execute these high level strategies… we can’t beat them well enough.

Phoenix has the point god so down the stretch they always get good looks. Unless we have a 8-10 point lead with 5 minutes left I don’t think we can close the game reliably against them. We’ve struggled in close games and against good teams. We just aren’t there.

It’s a great team… it’s a fun team. Almost surely headed for a second round exit. Plan accordingly and enjoy the ups… dont
let the downs destroy you.
 
Maybe the key is to just watch through three quarters then turn the game off. We are so frustrating in the fourth, especially the Clarkson minutes as the lead dwindles and we careen toward the inevitable collapse. Meanwhile Quin sets wide eyed on the bench and wonders why his master plan is failing yet again.
 
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I think this is Quin in basically every game where to us it seems the wheels are falling off.

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From his response both in game and in the press conferences afterward and in between, I think he feels like it is all part of the process. Some days we play with the odds and averages, some days we exceed them, some days we don't, and that is fine because over time the plan will generate more wins than losses. He misses the bigger picture that people are not statistics so we cannot rely on them always doing what you expect so that your results can average out, especially in the playoffs. Quin does not adapt because he doesn't feel he needs to. He can make major changes, like at half-time, but once the new scheme is figured out, or our guys are not executing properly, he doesn't have any other way to adapt, or he doesn't feel he needs to, so he rides it out and thinks "next game we will shoot better and win, and that will lead to our 65% planned win rate". He is a good strategist, but a terrible tactician, and unfortunately those coaches and teams that are better at adapting their in-the-moment tactics will beat him every time for this reason. I doubt we ever get out of the 2nd round with Quin as the coach mainly for this reason. There aren't enough games for it all to average out when your opponent does the unexpected and you don't have the tactics in your bag to counter it. "Stay the course" doesn't work when someone throws a huge log in the river in front of you.
 
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