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Game Thread Jan 17, 2022 08:30PM MT: Jazz at Lakers

Added to Calendar: 01-17-22

Fair enough, you are correct. I guess I was mostly responding to the comment you were replying to. Quin's commitment to money ball is not an issue. Like you said, lack of money ball is what's leaving Gobert hanging.
It is more than that. Look for Gobert in good % opportunities, as well as other high % options. And when a defense adjusts, you take the highest % shots the D gives you.

There was one loss to the Clips where the Clips overplayed the paint and 3 leaving the mid-range wide open. The Jazz took 0 mid-range shots through the first half and only a couple for the game.

Ty Lue outcoached Quin, but JFC, it wasn't difficult.
 
It's okay lol.

I am curious what would be the good decisions. Jazz did play some different sets so they could attack Dwight in the middle, just couldn't get it to work mostly because of bad shooting and poor decisions.

Conley could have come earlier and played 5 or 6 minutes more but Jazz are limiting his minutes. He could have helped but when he came back the ropes were pretty much gone.

I thought Clarkson played much more reigned in the second half. He still sucked though but was at least active defensively.

Paschall could have played in the second half but he looked ineffective against a bulkier match up.

The obvious was keeping Clarkson in the game way too long. He was killing the Jazz on both ends. Even when he wasn't shooting, he was dribbling a ton and looking for an attack before anything else. If Conley was on a hard minutes limit, there were several other options to play besides Conley.

The players have to carry some blame for their poor decision making, but at some point Quin needed to reign them in and attack the switching defense differently. We weren't getting the ball to Gobert down low and were content to dribble out the clock doing nothing at the top. They missed him several times in favor of hunting their own shots on the perimeter and they weren't even attacking the weakest defenders. They kept attacking Reaves, probably because he's white, but also a much better defender than Monk/WB. When a defense is switching everything, you have to involve their worst defenders. Monk/WB didn't have to defend anything. Simply setting a screen with Royce, on or off ball, would have made Monk/WB have to play defense. There was no diversity in their attack, didn't even set up a post up for Bogey who would have had the advantage on WB, THT, or Reaves in the post.

Defensively they fell apart because of freaking Stanley Johnson. Setting the pick with LeBron was creative strategy by the Lakers. It's ok if it works once, but they kept going to it over and over and scored nearly every time. That should have have obviously been a switch. Gobert can guard LeBron just fine and if he can't we should have help defenders bc the Lakers had no shooting out there. What did we get instead? SJ with free lanes to the basket, free wide open shots, and zero help from anyone outside of the action. The Lakers were playing 3-4 bad shooters at a time but we were playing as if they were all elite shooters with the lack of help. Simply playing a zone for couple possessions would have mucked up the Lakers offense but we let them milk the SJ/LBJ PnR.
 
You’re stating that it’s good we held the Lakers to 101. I counter with saying they held us to 95. You then invoke regular season offensive variance.

It's good that we held Lakers to 101 points because that means the Jazz's main issue which is perimeter defense wasn't the problem.

Lakers had an 104.4 offensive rating against the Jazz, not that different their average of 108.8

Jazz had 98.8 offensive rating which is far from their average 116.

For the Lakers to fall prey to variance, their performance would need to vary from their usual ratings.
 
It's good that we held Lakers to 101 points because that means the Jazz's main issue which is perimeter defense wasn't the problem.

Lakers had an 104.4 offensive rating against the Jazz, not that different their average of 108.8

Jazz had 98.8 offensive rating which is far from their average 116.

For the Lakers to fall prey to variance, their performance would need to vary from their usual ratings.
Net rating is all that matters. Pace, refereeing and many other factors affect the offense or defense rating.
 
Went to the game (thank you Rams game for making lower bowl row 9 tickets very affordable) - the Jazz's issues are so much more glaring in person. Don and Conley are small. We are unathletic, and watching Bogey try to guard LeBron / crash the boards is awful. JC is a ball hog. And the Jazz still cannot for the love of god take advantage of Rudy being guarded by smaller players like Stanley Johnson or Reaves.

I have no hope for the team. Snyder gets outcoached and doesn't make adjustments. Team still relies too much on 3 ball and is too soft. Until they make a trade I will be passively following.. just not worth the ^***ing heartache to get emotionally invested
 
The obvious was keeping Clarkson in the game way too long. He was killing the Jazz on both ends. Even when he wasn't shooting, he was dribbling a ton and looking for an attack before anything else. If Conley was on a hard minutes limit, there were several other options to play besides Conley.

The players have to carry some blame for their poor decision making, but at some point Quin needed to reign them in and attack the switching defense differently. We weren't getting the ball to Gobert down low and were content to dribble out the clock doing nothing at the top. They missed him several times in favor of hunting their own shots on the perimeter and they weren't even attacking the weakest defenders. They kept attacking Reaves, probably because he's white, but also a much better defender than Monk/WB. When a defense is switching everything, you have to involve their worst defenders. Monk/WB didn't have to defend anything. Simply setting a screen with Royce, on or off ball, would have made Monk/WB have to play defense. There was no diversity in their attack, didn't even set up a post up for Bogey who would have had the advantage on WB, THT, or Reaves in the post.

Defensively they fell apart because of freaking Stanley Johnson. Setting the pick with LeBron was creative strategy by the Lakers. It's ok if it works once, but they kept going to it over and over and scored nearly every time. That should have have obviously been a switch. Gobert can guard LeBron just fine and if he can't we should have help defenders bc the Lakers had no shooting out there. What did we get instead? SJ with free lanes to the basket, free wide open shots, and zero help from anyone outside of the action. The Lakers were playing 3-4 bad shooters at a time but we were playing as if they were all elite shooters with the lack of help. Simply playing a zone for couple possessions would have mucked up the Lakers offense but we let them milk the SJ/LBJ PnR.
I agree with most of your points.

Clarkson played bad but so did Mitchell, Bogey and Gay. I just don't feel comfortable piling it all on him.

Bogey's poor game seriously limited our offense. He is usually our go to guy when teams switch but he wasn't fighting for post up spots either.

I definitely agree that we need to find Rudy on seals but passing to seals is much different than entry passes to the post. Bogey, Clarkson and Mitchell don't have that on court awareness. That's who they are as players. I also feel like Ingles lost some of his passing touch. He isn't finding Rudy as much as he did.

I felt the defense slipped with offensive rebounds and Rudy just didn't look like himself. And-1s in transitions didn't help. If we could have settled into halfcourt defense, may be we could have gotten a stop but poor offense affected it. Zone could have worked but the damage was done in transition and Orebs.

My main point was that this wasn't the game to have a meltdown. I already had a few and I am being selective about it, lol. Jazz have their issues proven and need a change for sure. I just don't feel the guy you gave the same roster is the issue. Quin is probably gone next year anyways.

I would write in more detail but I need to sleep.
 
Really ****** game. Guys gave great effort but good hell they couldn’t make a shot… now I’m sitting here listening to ****ing Isiah Thomas giggle about how our window is closed. GTFO… back end of a back to back… we shot like dog ****… still right there.
 
If we can just hold our nerve and Snyder can find it in his heart to give scorers like Paschall and Hughes some minutes, we gonna win this thing yet!
Hughes didn’t play, Paschall got three minutes and change in the first half (Forrest one & 1/2). Meanwhile our starters all did in the 35/36 min range save for Conley with almost 29. For the Lakers all nine players played over twenty minutes and only Lebron played over thirty. And we were the team on the back end of a b2b. Some things, and people, never change!
 
Really ****** game. Guys gave great effort but good hell they couldn’t make a shot… now I’m sitting here listening to ****ing Isiah Thomas giggle about how our window is closed. GTFO… back end of a back to back… we shot like dog ****… still right there.
Our window has closed. The last 2 years were our best shots to win it all. Do people actually think this team is a contender? Lol
 
There was a play sequence middle of the 3rd where Don shoots a stupid long three… for no real reason and then allows a back door cut to Bradley where he just falls all the way asleep. It’s those little sequences he needs to cut out if we are going to win a title.

He also had a nice sequence where he snagged a couple steals… for the most part I thought he was solid on defense.

I’m officially worried about Royce’s defense. He’s either lost a step he couldn’t afford to lose or he’s hurt. If he’s hurt let’s sit him… give House and EP extended run.
 
Really ****** game. Guys gave great effort but good hell they couldn’t make a shot… now I’m sitting here listening to ****ing Isiah Thomas giggle about how our window is closed. GTFO… back end of a back to back… we shot like dog ****… still right there.

The effort was definitely the one positive from this game...I felt like that was the hardest some guys have played all season.
 
Our window has closed. The last 2 years were our best shots to win it all. Do people actually think this team is a contender? Lol
I’ve said that we aren’t. I just laugh that IT is using this game to cackle and talk about our window being closed.

It depends on your definition of contender… in general I tend to think there are 4 teams in any given year that can win a title. I think we can sneak into a conference finals with a lot of luck… like Portland did one year. I think there are 4 teams that are real “favorites” then there are some teams like us and Miami that can make a run… I don’t believe we can actually win a title though.
 
I agree with most of your points.

Clarkson played bad but so did Mitchell, Bogey and Gay. I just don't feel comfortable piling it all on him.

Bogey's poor game seriously limited our offense. He is usually our go to guy when teams switch but he wasn't fighting for post up spots either.

I definitely agree that we need to find Rudy on seals but passing to seals is much different than entry passes to the post. Bogey, Clarkson and Mitchell don't have that on court awareness. That's who they are as players. I also feel like Ingles lost some of his passing touch. He isn't finding Rudy as much as he did.

I felt the defense slipped with offensive rebounds and Rudy just didn't look like himself. And-1s in transitions didn't help. If we could have settled into halfcourt defense, may be we could have gotten a stop but poor offense affected it. Zone could have worked but the damage was done in transition and Orebs.

My main point was that this wasn't the game to have a meltdown. I already had a few and I am being selective about it, lol. Jazz have their issues proven and need a change for sure. I just don't feel the guy you gave the same roster is the issue. Quin is probably gone next year anyways.

I would write in more detail but I need to sleep.

To me the games where our obvious issues stand out are the hardest to take. I understand that if we had just a bad shooting night instead of our worst shooting night we'd be walking away with a W, but like I said, the result doesn't matter so much. Quin being completely inflexible and unwilling/unable to make adjustments is a serious problem and it was very evident tonight. Tonight was a huge reminder of that. It's an issue that should be taken as seriously as our defensive issues. We all know the playoffs are different from the RS. Our defense doesn't hold up and neither does Quin's one size fits all approach.
 
The effort was definitely the one positive from this game...I felt like that was the hardest some guys have played all season.
We really needed to let Lebron feel EP a bit. No idea why he didn’t play… was an ugly *** game… so one I’m sure he’d thrive in. Hell put him on Russ… he’d stay in front better than Royce.

I really need Quin to show me some of his super genius adjustments and experiments… I think he might just be a poor man’s Bud with better hair.
 
We really needed to let Lebron feel EP a bit. No idea why he didn’t play… was an ugly *** game… so one I’m sure he’d thrive in. Hell put him on Russ… he’d stay in front better than Royce.

I really need Quin to show me some of his super genius adjustments and experiments… I think he might just be a poor man’s Bud with better hair.

It was definitely odd that Paschall didn't get more minutes...especially with how he's been playing. I love Royce but I'm not sure he needs to be playing 35 minutes, give 7 or 8 of those to Paschall.
 
To me the games where our obvious issues stand out are the hardest to take. I understand that if we had just a bad shooting night instead of our worst shooting night we'd be walking away with a W, but like I said, the result doesn't matter so much. Quin being completely inflexible and unwilling/unable to make adjustments is a serious problem and it was very evident tonight. Tonight was a huge reminder of that. It's an issue that should be taken as seriously as our defensive issues. We all know the playoffs are different from the RS. Our defense doesn't hold up and neither does Quin's one size fits all approach.
His quote the other day was great… because it’s the opposite of how he manages the team. He’s just so rigid and I don’t know if it’s because he doesn’t have ideas or he’s too scared to fail.

I also saw the difference a perimeter defender who is up into your bizness like AB (though he’s lost a step or two) can make. You also see what happens with the energy thicc boy too in Stanley Johnson. Royce ain’t giving us that enough… it’s time to change up the mix a bit.

It just sucks cuz we had a chance to cause mega panic in LA and slew shot the ball like the Favs/Ricky teams.
 
Quin really needs to reign in Clarkson. He's shooting just 39.5% from the field, 31.5% from 3 and 48.9 effective field goal percentage, which according to Andy Larsen's latest article, is at least 5% worse than every other player on the team. No reason for this guy to have one of the greenest lights in the entire ****ing NBA. No other coach would put up with it.
 
dm, bogey and JC all had off games. we need atleast 2 of them to get going offensively to cover up our defensive issues.
 
His quote the other day was great… because it’s the opposite of how he manages the team. He’s just so rigid and I don’t know if it’s because he doesn’t have ideas or he’s too scared to fail.

I also saw the difference a perimeter defender who is up into your bizness like AB (though he’s lost a step or two) can make. You also see what happens with the energy thicc boy too in Stanley Johnson. Royce ain’t giving us that enough… it’s time to change up the mix a bit.

It just sucks cuz we had a chance to cause mega panic in LA and slew shot the ball like the Favs/Ricky teams.

I thought Royce was good tonight. There was a stretch of play where he was getting tips and deflections on seemingly every possession. The team as a whole played well on defense. He also hit a couple shots, which could not be said for most tonight.

Honestly, the Jazz lost to a freaking Stanley Johnson offensive outburst. I love Stanley Johnson and have believed in him not matter how bad he’s been. But we can’t let Stanley Johnson running a PnR as the ball handler destroy us. The first time was a beat quirk by the Lakers. But it can’t take you 5-6 possessions to figure out how to stop SJ running a PnR with no shooters around him. If Quin was alive he would have stumped that out after one possession, but he’s incapable. We got Terrance Mann’d again…but worse. A 5 put offense can be tough when 4/5 of your defenses can’t guard a cone. But there’s no way SJ running PnR with no shooters around him should unravel your defense. I don’t care how bad your players are you figure that **** out fast.

The Lakers have had their ups and downs this year, but over the years they’re really good at shrinking the court. Vogel knows what he’s doing and trains his players well. I thought their ability to help and recover was the key to their defense. They were rotating way faster than we could move the ball. I don’t know where the Lakers rank right now defensively, but I know they can turn it up on defense. They have that infrastructure and leadership from LeBron.

I do think our defensive issues are mostly talent centered. We’ve had good defense in the playoffs with good defensive talent. But we can’t divorce these bad habits from Quin. If we had Stanley Johnson, he probably would be staying home on THT like he’s prime Ray Allen while we give up open lanes to the basket.

I feel like SJ bumped into more people tonight than all of our wings combined. He knows he has to do that to make an impact. I’m fking dying watching JC do the same thing, except his idea of making an impact is trying to score at will and there’s no consequence for hijacking the offense.
 
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