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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Trade Don for Ja Morant. Lol. The Grizzlies are pretty damn good without Ja, ironically. Give Memphis back Conley too, and we can take Adams, Brooks and whatever else they wanna throw in.
 
Are Gobert supporters going with him if he gets traded? I'm more of a team over player guy. I was curious about the pro Rudy guys ?
 
TheGoldStandard said:
Direct stats show this not to be true.

I'll repost what I responded to you earlier:

...in direct matchups Steph's direct opponent shoots 1.4% less than their average while Don's opponent shoots 4% better than their average. And the Jazz try to hide Mitchell too. This was the regular season. Against Dallas opponents shot 9.6% better. Both regular season and playoffs were the worst for any Jazz player getting regular minutes.

What's worse, in the playoffs two years ago, players were -9.9 below their average when Don guarded them, which shows he can play D when he wants to. A good coach would be all over this ****, instead of stroking egos...
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I dont think you can use FG% against as a valid defensive indicator when a player only plays a handful of games. To me that mores of a season long stat, you need a big sample size to take anything from it.

You just got to watch the games. It's not that hard to see. Donovan was absolute dog ****, on or off ball. STeph can get beat, but he is generally in good positions.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I dont think you can use FG% against as a valid defensive indicator when a player only plays a handful of games. To me that mores of a season long stat, you need a big sample size to take anything from it.

You just got to watch the games. It's not that hard to see. Donovan was absolute dog ****, on or off ball. STeph can get beat, but he is generally in good positions.
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Maybe for playoffs, but I agree, you can see Don didn't pass the eye test on D.

However, you can if you look over multiple seasons, including regular season games to see trends. This doesn't properly account for help defense (which leaves Rudy's guy open a lot), but you can break it down by distance and more.

Here is a comparison of direct opponent %s for Rudy and Don:

Rudy:
Season:
21/22: -6.9; 20/21: -7.9; 2019-20: -6.3; 18/19 -.36
Playoff 21/22: -3.6; 20-21:02 19-20: +1.9% ;18/19 +0.8

Donovan:
Season:
21/22: +4.0' 20/21:+3.3; 19-20:+3.5; 18-19: -0.5.
Playoff: 21/22: +9.8; 20-21: +2.4; 19-20: -9.9; 18-19: +5.0


Regular rotation Jazz player whose opponent shoots at a higher percentage than average:

21/22: Donovan
20/21: Donovan (Trent and Matty Ice were worse, but played very few minutes/small sample size)
19/20: Niang (he played horrible defense that year as you may recall)
18/19: Rubio (Don actually played good D early in his career!)

As you can see, Rudy is not as effective in the playoffs, as teams spread the floor knowing that Rudy has to help our slow defenders.

I have seen Don play good defense when he wants to. That makes it even worse. Not sure another coach can fix the issue, but I'd like to see that attempted before blowing things up. I really think this team has a talented roster and they are significantly underachieving.
 
UtahJazz32 said:
Liked by your alternate account cylovesrudyequalsblownlayup
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After watching this first round fiasco with Dallas, I'm convinced that both of our Allstars are deeply flawed. I'm convinced that Mitchell will never be a "decent" defensive player and that Gobert will never be a "decent" offensive player. Of course this is a relative evaluation that applies to NBA players only (not just Allstar NBA players either). My rationale for finally writing them off has to do with physical characteristics and not commitment, so even though it's possible that emphasis and commitment could improve their deficits, I believe it would be negligible.

Gobert has a high center of gravity, is a little light in the rear end and like it or not, he has some coordination issues that usually manifest themselves in the ability to guage and catch passes. Don't get me wrong, he's great defensifely and he's come a long ways but he still has an inordinate number of miscues with the ball. And he also struggles to finish over opponents if he catches the ball with his feet on the ground..

Mitchell on the other hand is highly coordinated and blessed with explosive hops, but unfortunately he also has inordinately large feet. Dude is basically 6'1" and wears a size 16 shoe. For context consider that the late great Bob Lanier that passed this week was known for his big feet. At 6'9" his feet measured a whopping 18 1/2 (the size 22 was a Korean make and measurement). The 7'0" Hakeem Olajuwon wears a size 16. Mitchell is an amazing athlete that makes the best of his disability but is incapable of making those quick measuring steps necessary to react to an opponent in motion. Though he might gain some small advantage on offense in regards to the offensive foul called on defenders that might disrupt the motion of those big dogs, he still has to navigate the ball around them. This might account for the rather high 3.0 TO rate as well.

People like to believe that they're still trending up but I find that hard to believe based on the eye test. Gobert used to react so quickly to swat people like Westbrook barreling at him at breakneck speeds (OKC series), not so much anymore IMO. And Mitchell used to have an uncanny ability to penetrate, take off and finish over much larger players, not anymore IMO. We really need to cash these fellas out and give the keys to Clarkson and develop Dok. Puts on flame resistent hasmat suit. Don't forget that we'd get plenty of supporting talent as well as future picks if we did cash out now. Clarkson definitely deserves to start and would play more within himself when his role was not to jack up shots and close deficits. Dok doesn't need to start but he definitely needs to play God Damnit!!!


View: https://youtu.be/KBbg88W2Rpo



View: https://youtu.be/YZCdiVW7JxY


And here he is against the best center in the NBA right now:

View: https://youtu.be/AMtik3khJYQ
 
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Reading all of LoPo’s arguments after being destroyed is so exhausting. It’s like the typing is coming out of his ***!! No joke. He’s the guy that doubles, triples, quadruple down on something even though he knows he’s wrong because he’s to deep in his own ****!!
 
I just fail to see how the Jazz are going to re-tool around Rudy and Donovan. We have no cap space, no draft capital, most of the guys around Don and Rudy likely don't have great trade value due to their ages, contracts, etc., and we don't have any young guys that teams are interested in acquiring. In 2019 when we re-tooled, we used two first round picks and a guy that we just picked in the first round the year prior (Grayson Allen) to acquire Conley, and we used cap space to sign Bogey. We just have nothing to work with this time around, our assets are completely depleted.
 
Jingled said:
I just fail to see how the Jazz are going to re-tool around Rudy and Donovan. We have no cap space, no draft capital, most of the guys around Don and Rudy likely don't have great trade value due to their ages, contracts, etc., and we don't have any young guys that teams are interested in acquiring. In 2019 when we re-tooled, we used two first round picks and a guy that we just picked in the first round the year prior (Grayson Allen) to acquire Conley, and we used cap space to sign Bogey. We just have nothing to work with this time around, our assets are completely depleted.
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I agree... it is second on my list of things I prefer. Blowing it up now is my first preference. Re-shaping the roster around Rudy and Donovan at least makes some sense... rather than trading Rudy for a one year look and Donovan and friends.

I think its a long shot but its not as big of a long shot as trading the supporting cast and Rudy and building around Donovan and expecting to be good. If you did that and won 30 games then you almost certainly get a trade demand and I think Donovan gets viewed more as a good stats bad team guy. It sucks we likely aren't doing the thing we should because of an All-Star game. Charlotte got lucky when they did this with Kemba... what if his knee died during that year. They don't bounce back and get Rozier... what if they would have just traded him for a couple picks that offseason? Instead of landing PJ do they have Garland or Ja or Zion or RJ (okay its not a complete murderers row)? Plus what other picks do they land in that deal?

Its just weird to base decisions that affect the future of the franchise for the next 5-7 years around a fake game that no one watches.
 
Bodhi said:
Dok isnt an NBA player. Thats my opinion.

Another guys opinion that went to Baylor is that he was like the 3rd best player in his draft. But what do I know, ya know?
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I think he is a minimum third center if healthy. Which is something you don't pick when you have an All-NBA center under contract, and two vet minimum level centers that you need to offload... and you also plan on signing a center to the MLE...

But what do I know.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think he is a minimum third center if healthy. Which is something you don't pick when you have an All-NBA center under contract, and two vet minimum level centers that you need to offload... and you also plan on signing a center to the MLE...

But what do I know.
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I thought Dok figured some things out when he was force fed minutes this year. I think he has the potential to be a decent backup.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think he is a minimum third center if healthy. Which is something you don't pick when you have an All-NBA center under contract, and two vet minimum level centers that you need to offload... and you also plan on signing a center to the MLE...

But what do I know.
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Advanced level stuff here. Slow down, let me get my note pad!


"DENNIS!!!!!!!! .................come here! I got a fella I want you to talk to!!!!!"
 
Bodhi said:
Advanced level stuff here. Slow down, let me get my note pad!


"DENNIS!!!!!!!! .................come here! I got a fella I want you to talk to!!!!!"
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I'm convinced Dennis knew he was out and was like "this **** will get me fired and I can take a couple years off!"
 
sip said:
I thought Dok figured some things out when he was force fed minutes this year. I think he has the potential to be a decent backup.
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I agree... its still a ****** pick if you take a guy that has potential to be a decent backup when there are centers in FA every year for the minimum that are good backups.

I wish we hadn't picked up his option but I think he is an nba player if healthy.
 
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