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Donald is about to go through some things...

Douchebag K said:
more importantly why tf did they only realise after 18 months that some nuclear weapon documents were missing ??
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Well, this isn't the first time they have tried to retrieve what trump took.
 
fishonjazz said:
Well, this isn't the first time they have tried to retrieve what trump took.
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eh was just a joke. This is all so bizarre.. The problem is they're dealing with a dude who is probably the most slippery skillful avoider of things catching up with him on the planet
 
fishonjazz said:
And its nice to see you celebrating the fact that the DOJ wants to release the search warrant.
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I do celebrate it but it also didn't escape my attention how easily you were sucked in by the media's false narrative on that. Trump never opposed releasing the warrant and in fact was ready to file a lawsuit to get it released. You read an article that said "according to reports Trump might fight the release of the warrant". If you had bothered to look at the "reports", which was just another article, they cited "sources familiar with Trump's thinking'. They didn't even talk to anyone who had any connection to Trump but rather some self-appointed expert on Trump who said Trump might oppose the release of the warrant. Meanwhile Trump himself released a statement that he strongly supported the public release of the warrant.

fishonjazz said:
Team trump is like "oh crap, wait a minute maybe we dont want that information to be released"
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The public release of the warrant is a good thing. Public officials in front of cameras is a good thing. Providing information to the public and to congressional oversight committees is a good thing. That you were so quick to believe this obviously fake line is not a good thing. As for the government already having looked through the boxes during an earlier trip to Mar-o-Lago and leaving them there but asking for a stronger lock on the repository room, that is all real. I admit that my belief that this is really about trying to find evidence to support intent for charges related to January 6th is conjecture on my part, but the government having already looked at the material in the boxes in the repository room back in June of this year and asking for the stronger lock is not conjecture. That happened.
 
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The Thriller said:
Watch the Trumpers on here try and deflect and distract. Hillary! Hunter! Uhhhh well this crime wasn’t that bad. Trump was too stupid to know it was a crime. He can’t be criming when he doesn’t think he’s criming. He’s too stupid. Actually, what trump was doing wasn't criminal but patriotic. Just like the phone call to Ukraine and Jan 6. Zelensky and the west are actually the bad people and Putin is good. Jan 6 was actually a patriotic and great day. Ashli Babbit was the victim and the Capitol police were bad. Holding Jan 6 Hearings is bad! How dare we hold Trump accountable?! If only we leave him alone then he and the right won't wreck American democracy! The mean law enforcement is out to get him! He's innocent!

And then they’ll go silent for a few days and then come back on here during the next Trump scandal to defend their god. It happens every other week.
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So predictable.

We’ve now moved onto the phase that Trump was too stupid to crime. This happens every ****ing time.

View: https://twitter.com/arifleischer/status/1557811888297230337?s=21&t=Z5dkoPDxadLqZz42JB19kw

The next phase will be, “so what? He did it? Whatever. The American government deserved this. After all, they’re the deep state that protects HunterHillaryantifahugochavezvotinachinesreleasethekraken!” Orange god king good.”

Just like Jan 6 has become a day of patriotism and glory for the right. Trump’s stealing of these documents will be seen as either totally innocent and/or completely justified by the right in a few days.
 
The Thriller said:
We’ve now moved onto the phase that Trump was too stupid to crime. This happens every ****ing time.

View: https://twitter.com/arifleischer/status/1557811888297230337?s=21&t=Z5dkoPDxadLqZz42JB19kw
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...Or maybe there were no classified documents at Mar-o-Lago and the "inside source" informing the FBI of secret nuclear codes being stored at Mar-o-Lago was actually Donald Trump wearing a mustache disguise and speaking with a fake accent that started as Australian but morphed into something halfway between Mexican and Irish to get the FBI to make an irresistible spectacle he could use to launch his 2024 campaign for President.
 
One Brow said:

AZDPS Responds to Rioting Protestors at State Capitol | Arizona Department of Public Safety

Protests over the United States Supreme Court’s ruling overturning Roe v. Wade brought an estimated 7,000 to 8,000 people to the Arizona State Capitol Complex in Phoenix on Friday, June 24, 2022.
www.azdps.gov www.azdps.gov

Definitely people going overboard, and they deserve criminal repercussions.
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I think it's just that they learned from Jan 6 that this is the new way to "protest". Did they erect a gallows? If not, they missed a step.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I do celebrate it but it also didn't escape my attention how easily you were sucked in by the media's false narrative on that. Trump never opposed releasing the warrant and in fact was ready to file a lawsuit to get it released. You read an article that said "according to reports Trump might fight the release of the warrant". If you had bothered to look at the "reports", which was just another article, they cited "sources familiar with Trump's thinking'.
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Not sure if, in my own case, sucked in by media, or just expect Trump to hide the truth as a default response on his part. So, I would just expect him to hide the warrant if the contents reflected poorly on him. I just imagine that would be the defining criteria for deciding to release or not. If it revealed anything that reflected very poorly on him, request it not be released.

In this instance, I would conclude we can’t expect the warrant to be specific regarding classified info on nuclear weapons, or Trump would not respond in this way. I would also conclude, from this statement by Trump that, yep, of course they were looking for documents related to nuclear weapons:

www.nbcnews.com

Trump denies report that FBI sought nuclear documents during Mar-a-Lago search

The Washington Post reported that FBI agents were looking for classified documents related to nuclear weapons, among other items.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

On his Truth Social platform, Trump said that "Nuclear weapons is a hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia was a hoax," referring to then-special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia. Trump attacked the officials involved with the search of his home, calling them "sleazy."
 
I'm not surprised that Trump would want them to leak it. Doesn't matter what it is, Trump and his circle will know that his voters are going to listen to him regardless of what anyone says as the FBI and DOJ can't be trusted.

Doesn't matter if it's nuke codes, conversations about national security or even stolen White House pens, the information is invalid because the government is against me and it's against you so who are you going to believe?

Simply put, distrust everyone but me. This is how it's been for 6+ years so not surprised that it's a continuation of the past.
 
Avery said:
I'm not surprised that Trump would want them to leak it. Doesn't matter what it is, Trump and his circle will know that his voters are going to listen to him regardless of what anyone says as the FBI and DOJ can't be trusted.

Doesn't matter if it's nuke codes, conversations about national security or even stolen White House pens, the information is invalid because the government is against me and it's against you so who are you going to believe?

Simply put, distrust everyone but me. This is how it's been for 6+ years so not surprised that it's a continuation of the past.
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Exactly. Trump wants the DOJ to release it. Then he can lie and say that his warrant is different. He won’t ever have to release his warrant since his cultists will just believe his word.

Just like how the wall is being built.
Or how his tax returns.
Or how his inauguration was bigger than obama’s
Or his health care plan in 2 weeks.
Or how that hurricane was going to Alabama.
Or election fraud.
Or (insert any number of lies trump has told and his cult believe)
 
The Thriller said:
Exactly. Trump wants the DOJ to release it. Then he can lie and say that his warrant is different. He won’t ever have to release his warrant since his cultists will just believe his word.

Just like how the wall is being built.
Or how his tax returns.
Or how his inauguration was bigger than obama’s
Or his health care plan in 2 weeks.
Or how that hurricane was going to Alabama.
Or election fraud.
Or (insert any number of lies trump has told and his cult believe)
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Hard to believe, but I 100% agree with Trump about this. It's unfathomable, but it also shows how deep it runs:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
 
Avery said:
Hard to believe, but I 100% agree with Trump about this. It's unfathomable, but it also shows how deep it runs:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
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Trump could eat a baby on live TV and his crazed cult would cheer him on. Well… as long as the baby wasn’t white.
 
What we are learning that is really concerning is how much overt corruption we are willing to tolerate as long as it fits our personal views and makes us feel like we are getting a better deal. The fact that we really don't hold any politicians accountable for, well for anything really, in terms of who we elect, is telling. Of course politicians for life have always been part of the political zeitgeist, but I think we are seeing some unprecedented willingness to just blatantly lay it out there, engage in gaslighting, and then see that nothing happens as a result. Or that they even get more and more zealous support. It is really disturbing on many levels.
 
LogGrad98 said:
What we are learning that is really concerning is how much overt corruption we are willing to tolerate as long as it fits our personal views and makes us feel like we are getting a better deal. The fact that we really don't hold any politicians accountable for, well for anything really, in terms of who we elect, is telling. Of course politicians for life have always been part of the political zeitgeist, but I think we are seeing some unprecedented willingness to just blatantly lay it out there, engage in gaslighting, and then see that nothing happens as a result. Or that they even get more and more zealous support. It is really disturbing on many levels.
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I agree with everything you wrote there. I don't believe either side is being honest here or in most of our political discourse, but a corrupt FBI frightens me more than a corrupt former president. I'm not saying I believe the Trump narrative but it is more plausible than the FBI's story. As everyone seems happy to retreat to their own silos of information, here are the dominant competing narratives:

THE PRO-MERRICK GARLAND NARRATIVE:
Trump stole some documents from the White House upon his departure. A person near Trump, likely one of his Secret Service detail, discovered a document or documents that constituted a risk to national security and he informed the proper authorities who got a warrant to recover the document or documents along with any other improperly taken property belonging to the federal government.

THE PRO-TRUMP NARRATIVE:
The documents Trump took were unredacted documents in his possession at the White House that contained evidence along with naming names in the FBI surrounding the events of Hillary's email investigation and the Russia collusion investigation. He didn't trust the government to ever release these classified documents in unredacted form and so he declassified them and took them to eventually put on public display in his Donald J. Trump Presidential Library whenever he got around to building it.

The problem with the pro-Merrick Garland narrative is Biden said he wasn't advised before the raid which means whatever Trump had, it couldn't have been an issue of national security because the President would have needed to have been in the loop. The issues of justice and national security are very different. If it were an issue of justice then it is conceivable the President could want that to be independent but never ever should that be the case with issues of national security. Either Biden is lying and/or more likely the whole 'national security' thing is an excuse made up after the fact. Even the claims of mishandling of classified information are far fetched seeing as the President has the power to declassify anything at any time, and anyone making the claim of mishandling of classified documents would have to prove Trump never thought to declassify them. Good luck trying to prove the thoughts in Trump's head in court. Lastly, even the Presidential Records Act cannot serve as the basis for a search warrant because it is not a criminal statute.

I have no idea if what Trump is saying is complete bovine manure but I do know the pro-Merrick Garland narrative has some serious plot holes.
 
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From what I can tell, it seems the search was only deemed necessary after every exhaustive effort was made for sensitive information to be returned. Similar to someone owing you money or borrowing your tools, it kind of feels like it only escalated due to one party simply dragging their feet time and time again. I'll just copy/paste the CNN info:

Here's a timeline of the key moments from the investigation:

  • May 2021: An official from NARA contacts Trump's team after realizing that several important documents weren't handed over before Trump left the White House. In hopes of locating the missing items, NARA lawyer Gary Stern reaches out to someone who served in the White House counsel's office under Trump who was the point of contact for record-keeping matters. The missing documents include some of Trump's correspondence with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as well as the map of Hurricane Dorian that Trump infamously altered with a Sharpie pen.
  • Fall 2021: NARA grows frustrated with the slow pace of document turnover after several months of conversations with the Trump team. Stern reaches out to another Trump attorney to intervene. The archivist asks about several boxes of records that were apparently taken to Mar-a-Lago during Trump's relocation to Florida. NARA still doesn't receive the White House documents they are searching for.
  • January 2022: After months of discussions with Trump's team, NARA retrieves 15 boxes of Trump White House records from Mar-a-Lago. NARA says in a statement that some of the records it received at the end of Trump's administration were "torn up by former President Trump," and that White House officials had to tape them back together. Not all the torn-up documents were reconstructed, NARA says.
  • Feb. 9, 2022: News outlets, including CNN, report that NARA asked the Justice Department to investigate Trump's handling of White House records and whether he violated the Presidential Records Act and other laws related to classified information. The Presidential Records Act requires all records created by a sitting president to be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administration.
  • Feb. 18, 2022: NARA informs the Justice Department that some of the documents retrieved from Mar-a-Lago included classified material. NARA also tells the department that, despite being warned it was illegal, Trump tore up documents while he was president, and that senior officials in the Trump administration did not properly preserve their social media messages, draft tweets and deleted tweets.
  • April and May 2022: On April 7, NARA publicly acknowledges for the first time that the Justice Department is involved, and news outlets report that prosecutors have launched a criminal probe into Trump's mishandling of classified documents. Around this time, FBI agents quietly interview Trump aides at Mar-a-Lago about the handling of presidential records as part of their widening investigation.
  • May 12, 2022: News outlets report that investigators subpoenaed NARA for access to the classified documents retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. The subpoena, which is part of the process to allow investigators to take possession of the documents from the NARA, is the first public indication of the Justice Department using a grand jury in its investigation.
  • June 3, 2022: Four investigators, including a top Justice Department counterintelligence official, visit Mar-a-Lago seeking more information about classified material that had been taken to Florida. The four investigators meet with two of Trump's attorneys, Christina Bobb and Evan Corcoran, and look around the basement room where the documents are being stored. Trump briefly stops by the meeting to say hello to the officials, but he does not answer any questions.
  • June 8, 2022: Trump's attorneys receive a letter from federal investigators, asking them to further secure the room where documents are being stored. In response, Trump aides add a padlock to the room in the basement of Mar-a-Lago.
  • Aug. 8, 2022: The FBI executes a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago — a major escalation of the classified documents investigation. The search focused on the area of the club where Trump's offices and personal quarters are located. Federal agents remove boxes of material from the property. The search was the first time in American history that a former president's home was searched as part of a criminal investigation.
  • Aug. 11, 2022: After three days of silence, Attorney General Merrick Garland makes a brief public statement about the investigation. He reveals that he personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant, and pushes back against what he called "unfounded attacks on the professionalism of the FBI and Justice Department." Garland also announces that the Justice Department will ask a judge to unseal some of the search warrant documents. Trump says in a late-night post on his Truth Social platform that he will "not oppose the release of documents" related to the search.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I agree with everything you wrote there. I don't believe either side is being honest here or in most of our political discourse, but a corrupt FBI frightens me more than a corrupt former president. I'm not saying I believe the Trump narrative but it is more plausible than the FBI's story. As everyone seems happy to retreat to their own silos of information, here are the dominant competing narratives:

THE PRO-MERRICK GARLAND NARRATIVE:
Trump stole some documents from the White House upon his departure. A person near Trump, likely one of his Secret Service detail, discovered a document or documents that constituted a risk to national security and he informed the proper authorities who got a warrant to recover the document or documents along with any other improperly taken property belonging to the federal government.

THE PRO-TRUMP NARRATIVE:
The documents Trump took were unredacted documents in his possession at the White House that contained evidence along with naming names in the FBI surrounding the events of Hillary's email investigation and the Russia collusion investigation. He didn't trust the government to ever release these classified documents in unredacted form and so he declassified them and took them to eventually put on public display in his Donald J. Trump Presidential Library whenever he got around to building it.

The problem with the pro-Merrick Garland narrative is Biden said he wasn't advised before the raid which means whatever Trump had, it couldn't have been an issue of national security because the President would have needed to have been in the loop. The issues of justice and national security are very different. If it were an issue of justice then it is conceivable the President could want that to be independent but never ever should that be the case with issues of national security. Either Biden is lying and/or more likely the whole 'national security' thing is an excuse made up after the fact. Even the claims of mishandling of classified information are far fetched seeing as the President has the power to declassify anything at any time, and anyone making the claim of mishandling of classified documents would have to prove Trump never thought to declassify them. Good luck trying to prove the thoughts in Trump's head in court. Lastly, even the Presidential Records Act cannot serve as the basis for a search warrant because it is not a criminal statute.

I have no idea if what Trump is saying is complete bovine manure but I do know the pro-Merrick Garland narrative has some serious plot holes.
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The problem with the pro trump narrative is that he still took documents that he wasn't allowed to take. In both narratives none of this going on now happens if trump simply follows the rules in place that every other president followed. Dont take the documents and this discussion never happens.
 
Avery said:
From what I can tell, it seems the search was only deemed necessary after every exhaustive effort was made for sensitive information to be returned. Similar to someone owing you money or borrowing your tools, it kind of feels like it only escalated due to one party simply dragging their feet time and time again. I'll just copy/paste the CNN info:

Here's a timeline of the key moments from the investigation:

  • May 2021: An official from NARA contacts Trump's team after realizing that several important documents weren't handed over before Trump left the White House. In hopes of locating the missing items, NARA lawyer Gary Stern reaches out to someone who served in the White House counsel's office under Trump who was the point of contact for record-keeping matters. The missing documents include some of Trump's correspondence with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as well as the map of Hurricane Dorian that Trump infamously altered with a Sharpie pen.
  • Fall 2021: NARA grows frustrated with the slow pace of document turnover after several months of conversations with the Trump team. Stern reaches out to another Trump attorney to intervene. The archivist asks about several boxes of records that were apparently taken to Mar-a-Lago during Trump's relocation to Florida. NARA still doesn't receive the White House documents they are searching for.
  • January 2022: After months of discussions with Trump's team, NARA retrieves 15 boxes of Trump White House records from Mar-a-Lago. NARA says in a statement that some of the records it received at the end of Trump's administration were "torn up by former President Trump," and that White House officials had to tape them back together. Not all the torn-up documents were reconstructed, NARA says.
  • Feb. 9, 2022: News outlets, including CNN, report that NARA asked the Justice Department to investigate Trump's handling of White House records and whether he violated the Presidential Records Act and other laws related to classified information. The Presidential Records Act requires all records created by a sitting president to be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administration.
  • Feb. 18, 2022: NARA informs the Justice Department that some of the documents retrieved from Mar-a-Lago included classified material. NARA also tells the department that, despite being warned it was illegal, Trump tore up documents while he was president, and that senior officials in the Trump administration did not properly preserve their social media messages, draft tweets and deleted tweets.
  • April and May 2022: On April 7, NARA publicly acknowledges for the first time that the Justice Department is involved, and news outlets report that prosecutors have launched a criminal probe into Trump's mishandling of classified documents. Around this time, FBI agents quietly interview Trump aides at Mar-a-Lago about the handling of presidential records as part of their widening investigation.
  • May 12, 2022: News outlets report that investigators subpoenaed NARA for access to the classified documents retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. The subpoena, which is part of the process to allow investigators to take possession of the documents from the NARA, is the first public indication of the Justice Department using a grand jury in its investigation.
  • June 3, 2022: Four investigators, including a top Justice Department counterintelligence official, visit Mar-a-Lago seeking more information about classified material that had been taken to Florida. The four investigators meet with two of Trump's attorneys, Christina Bobb and Evan Corcoran, and look around the basement room where the documents are being stored. Trump briefly stops by the meeting to say hello to the officials, but he does not answer any questions.
  • June 8, 2022: Trump's attorneys receive a letter from federal investigators, asking them to further secure the room where documents are being stored. In response, Trump aides add a padlock to the room in the basement of Mar-a-Lago.
  • Aug. 8, 2022: The FBI executes a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago — a major escalation of the classified documents investigation. The search focused on the area of the club where Trump's offices and personal quarters are located. Federal agents remove boxes of material from the property. The search was the first time in American history that a former president's home was searched as part of a criminal investigation.
  • Aug. 11, 2022: After three days of silence, Attorney General Merrick Garland makes a brief public statement about the investigation. He reveals that he personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant, and pushes back against what he called "unfounded attacks on the professionalism of the FBI and Justice Department." Garland also announces that the Justice Department will ask a judge to unseal some of the search warrant documents. Trump says in a late-night post on his Truth Social platform that he will "not oppose the release of documents" related to the search.
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Pretty clear and cut and dry. A: dont take documents. That is against the rules. B: Return them all when asked to (but again, just dont take them in the first place)
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this was all part of trumps (and putins) plan. Divide the country even more. Sow more distrust in our institutions (putin is probably loving this aspect). Plus get to be in the public limelight even more which he loves.
 
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