On the record...

Here is my prediction: The guys on the team's website today 8/12 will open the season with the Jazz. That includes Whiteside, DM and all the TWolve dudes. The other teams jackpotted around with Ainge so he just said FU to the rest of the league and to DM.

Handlogten's Heros said:

Over-valuing our current players is very much a concern with DL. To think that deal was on the table and Danny passed is not super reasonable. He would be much more inclined to over value his guy over a guy that had been on the Jazz for a while.

I think the Boston talks were "hey we want Smart" and they were like "how about J Rich?". If you think Bogey for Richardson moves the needle and would qualify as passing on something we should have tried then fair... but I think those were likely the deal types that were on the table unless we threw a pick on the table. That pick would need to have VERY limited projections because of other obligations. We had no other real sweetners... couldn't even do a "we won't give you a first but we will do 3 seconds!"

Bogey and a 2018 first for Smart? Maybe that was on the table... and maybe we should have done it... but you have to recognize the big risk that would have been to try and save the sinking ship.

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Perhaps, you would have to think that Ainge wanted Smart. But I just remembered that trade discussion so we’ll because so many people were vehemently against it. I felt like everyone was overvaluing our players compared to different types of players. Smart wasn’t the only player we talked about. There many iterations of many different incoming and outgoing players without picks involved. If we made moves before the season, I actually think we could have been the team receiving the pick. But the franchise was too set on the roster they had. I have a hard time believing that we couldn’t trade any of our offense only players for a more defensive or utility focused player.

And I don’t mean to put this all on Ainge either. I think the incumbent FO is probably more responsible for the trade deadline than Ainge even though he had already joined the org. Obviously he’s not on the bill for anything before he got here. The inaction would align with the inaction they had with years.

Regardless of who was truly making the decisions….it was really bad to not rearrange more of the pieces. Some combination of overvaluing the existing players and guarding the future caused that. The latter is understandable, but I don’t think a pick needed to be on the table to make a change.

Jingled said:

If that deal was on the table Ainge would've jumped on it. I'm guessing the Celtics would've wanted a pick along with Bogey.

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Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

I want to go on the record to say that the new "uniforms" will go down as a dismal failure and become a laughing stock in the league. Horrible stuff.

KqWIN said:

Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

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I think you are misremembering but no way I'm going to look it up... I'd say it was much closer to 50/50 on a Smart for Bogey deal. A few folks were hung up on Smart being a guard iirc.

I'm 99% sure if that deal was there Ainge jumps at it.

KqWIN said:

Perhaps, you would have to think that Ainge wanted Smart. But I just remembered that trade discussion so we’ll because so many people were vehemently against it. I felt like everyone was overvaluing our players compared to different types of players. Smart wasn’t the only player we talked about. There many iterations of many different incoming and outgoing players without picks involved. If we made moves before the season, I actually think we could have been the team receiving the pick. But the franchise was too set on the roster they had. I have a hard time believing that we couldn’t trade any of our offense only players for a more defensive or utility focused player.

And I don’t mean to put this all on Ainge either. I think the incumbent FO is probably more responsible for the trade deadline than Ainge even though he had already joined the org. Obviously he’s not on the bill for anything before he got here. The inaction would align with the inaction they had with years.

Regardless of who was truly making the decisions….it was really bad to not rearrange more of the pieces. Some combination of overvaluing the existing players and guarding the future caused that. The latter is understandable, but I don’t think a pick needed to be on the table to make a change.

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I think once the Favs trade happened our ability to improve the roster was significantly hamstrung. DL could have done more. JZ famously had a deal lined up for Joe and Quin said nah. Once Ainge got in I think there were very few sacred cows... I think he tried like hell to get something that would change things up... and the market said no. Simple as that.

Even like a Thad Young deal would have been hard to do with the assets we had to work with. Trading like for like almost certainly means you need a third team to work with you... very few if any trades happen where we swap a win now piece for a different win now piece. You mentioned a potential Royce to Nets deal... would have been basically impossible with the timing of the Harden trade. So having a mediocre asset like Keon Johnson and some second rounders plus an owner willing to spend into infinity was quite a bit more than we could put on the table. They also wanted no pieces that would help them win more last season. White went for a first and a far out swap... would have been tough to say our unprotected 2018 first should go in a deal like that... and may not have been the best offer.

I don't see the evidence that suggests they didn't try, try hard enough, or try everything... I just think they couldn't find a deal with the very limited resources they had.

KqWIN said:

Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

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I wasn't talking about the fans or the posters on this board, I was talking about Ainge...I 100% believe that if Ainge could've swapped Bogey for Smart strait up, he would've done it in a heartbeat.

Jingled said:

I wasn't talking about the fans or the posters on this board, I was talking about Ainge...I 100% believe that if Ainge could've swapped Bogey for Smart strait up, he would've done it in a heartbeat.

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We were the couple on House Hunters that wants the beachfront condo in Hawaii with 3 bedrooms and nice amenities but only had $200k to spend.

I brought up Smart not because I necessarily believe that deal was available, but because it was common to have that hesitation to trade offense for defense. It's just a very clear example of what I believe to be overvaluing the existing roster at the time. This isn't to say Bogey is overrated on his own, but that we didn't give enough consideration to the fact the our defense sucked badly. It didn't have to Bogey and Smart. It could have been any of our offense only players for someone who isn't offense only. We overvalued the existing roster on this board. Whoever made the decisions could have too, and I believe that was a bigger contributing factor to the inaction than a tough trade market.

KqWIN said:

I brought up Smart not because I necessarily believe that deal was available, but because it was common to have that hesitation to trade offense for defense. It's just a very clear example of what I believe to be overvaluing the existing roster at the time. This isn't to say Bogey is overrated on his own, but that we didn't give enough consideration to the fact the our defense sucked badly. It didn't have to Bogey and Smart. It could have been any of our offense only players for someone who isn't offense only. We overvalued the existing roster on this board. Whoever made the decisions could have too, and I believe that was a bigger contributing factor to the inaction than a tough trade market.

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Who are you talking about here when you said there was hesitation?

Elizah Huge said:

Who are you talking about here when you said there was hesitation?

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Whoever I was talking to for the past two years about this exact type of trade. Been wanting it since the DEN series and it never happened.

Put me on record of saying Simone will be better than any player in the Gobert trade return. I think he has a good NBA career

ok, i root for a team that keeps their good players and tries to find talent to put around them to win. they keep the core, they show loyalty to hard work, they let go people who aren't team players. they don't always win, but they are fun to cheer for and when they do strike gold, it's worth the payoff. we no longer have that team.

I'll go on the record that I think Butler has a break-out season provided he really gets playing time.

As has already been mentioned, that season after Stockton/Malone left was one of the most exciting seasons. It's a shame that Kirilenko didn't keep that level of performance and motivation for the remainder of his career. He could have been an all time great.

I'm on the record saying we won't trade DM and go full tank. We'll play well enough to almost make the play in (finish 1 game out at 11). Then whoever got our draft pick at 11 will get a miracle bouncing ball and grab the #1 pick (unless it was protected for some reason...I really don't know)

Dread said:

I'm on the record saying we won't trade DM and go full tank. We'll play well enough to almost make the play in (finish 1 game out at 11). Then whoever got our draft pick at 11 will get a miracle bouncing ball and grab the #1 pick (unless it was protected for some reason...I really don't know)

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I think the Jazz own their own pick for the next draft. In 2024 their own pick is Top 10 protected.

Not having read most of this thread, this is how I picure @LogGrad98

Jazz Spazz said:

Not having read most of this thread, this is how I picure @LogGrad98

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Yes, it's true, I cheered for Rudy. And I am unashamed.

I'll go on the record as saying that Conley has a lot left in the tank, he's not cooked. He's going to have a good season this year.