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Donald is about to go through some things...

fishonjazz said:
The problem with the pro trump narrative is that he still took documents that he wasn't allowed to take. In both narratives none of this going on now happens if trump simply follows the rules in place that every other president followed. Dont take the documents and this discussion never happens.
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Here on Earth every US President since Herbert Hoover has a Presidential Library in which documents from their administration are displayed.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
I'm not saying I believe the Trump narrative but it is more plausible than the FBI's story.
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Unlikely.

Al-O-Meter said:
THE PRO-TRUMP NARRATIVE:
The documents Trump took were unredacted documents in his possession at the White House that contained evidence along with naming names in the FBI surrounding the events of Hillary's email investigation and the Russia collusion investigation. He didn't trust the government to ever release these classified documents in unredacted form and so he declassified them and took them to eventually put on public display in his Donald J. Trump Presidential Library whenever he got around to building it.
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This is just stupid. Seriously. If Trump had documents regarding supposed corruption in the FBI on the Clinton email investigation or in the Russian influence probe, he doesn't just sit on it. He releases it and talks about it as soon as he sees it. The man has almost no impulse control.

Al-O-Meter said:
The problem with the pro-Merrick Garland narrative is Biden said he wasn't advised before the raid which means whatever Trump had, it couldn't have been an issue of national security because the President would have needed to have been in the loop.
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Evidence for this claim, please?

Al-O-Meter said:
The issues of justice and national security are very different. If it were an issue of justice then it is conceivable the President could want that to be independent but never ever should that be the case with issues of national security.
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So, this is just your opinion, not based on any process. I've worked in companies that built software for use in TS/SCI systems. No one needed to consult the President on system design or security. I'm sure the Justice Department/FBI is full of people with sufficient clearance, including Garland himself.

The notion that Biden would need to be involved must be comfortable fiction for you, but it is a fiction.

Al-O-Meter said:
Even the claims of mishandling of classified information are far fetched seeing as the President has the power to declassify anything at any time, and anyone making the claim of mishandling of classified documents would have to prove Trump never thought to declassify them.
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No, they would only need to show Trump did not *act* to declassify them.
 
fishonjazz said:
Pretty clear and cut and dry.
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It is clear that Trump so far has been vindicated.
  • June 3, 2022: Four investigators, including a top Justice Department counterintelligence official, visit Mar-a-Lago seeking more information about classified material that had been taken to Florida. The four investigators meet with two of Trump's attorneys, Christina Bobb and Evan Corcoran, and look around the basement room where the documents are being stored. Trump briefly stops by the meeting to say hello to the officials, but he does not answer any questions.
  • June 8, 2022: Trump's attorneys receive a letter from federal investigators, asking them to further secure the room where documents are being stored. In response, Trump aides add a padlock to the room in the basement of Mar-a-Lago.
  • Aug. 8, 2022: The FBI executes a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago — a major escalation of the classified documents investigation. The search focused on the area of the club where Trump's offices and personal quarters are located. Federal agents remove boxes of material from the property. The search was the first time in American history that a former president's home was searched as part of a criminal investigation.
Government investigators wanted access to the documents in Trump's possession and were immediately granted access. They did not take the documents but wanted a stronger lock which they formally requested a few days later, and which Team Trump did install. Then no more requests of any kind until three dozen investigators arrive with machines gun to seize the documents the government investigators 2 months earlier had examined and left behind.
 
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One Brow said:
Please explain how any of that vindicated Trump.
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Trump has said that he was cooperating and the timeline shows that he was. The government knew exactly what he had and they let him keep it in June. It wasn't as if Trump, in typical Trump fashion, didn't make a huge deal out of his intentions all the way back in late 2020 by tweeting it out to his millions of followers.

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Al-O-Meter said:
Trump has said that he was cooperating and the timeline shows that he was. The government knew exactly what he had and they let him keep it in June. It wasn't as if Trump, in typical Trump fashion, didn't make a huge deal out of his intentions all the way back in late 2020 by tweeting it out to his millions of followers.

j090MgW.png
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The documents being classified or unclassified matters not. Cant take the documents with ya when ya leave either way.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
It is clear that Trump so far has been vindicated.
  • June 3, 2022: Four investigators, including a top Justice Department counterintelligence official, visit Mar-a-Lago seeking more information about classified material that had been taken to Florida. The four investigators meet with two of Trump's attorneys, Christina Bobb and Evan Corcoran, and look around the basement room where the documents are being stored. Trump briefly stops by the meeting to say hello to the officials, but he does not answer any questions.
  • June 8, 2022: Trump's attorneys receive a letter from federal investigators, asking them to further secure the room where documents are being stored. In response, Trump aides add a padlock to the room in the basement of Mar-a-Lago.
  • Aug. 8, 2022: The FBI executes a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago — a major escalation of the classified documents investigation. The search focused on the area of the club where Trump's offices and personal quarters are located. Federal agents remove boxes of material from the property. The search was the first time in American history that a former president's home was searched as part of a criminal investigation.
Government investigators wanted access to the documents in Trump's possession and were immediately granted access. They did not take the documents but wanted a stronger lock which they formally requested a few days later, and which Team Trump did install. Then no more requests of any kind until three dozen investigators arrive with machines gun to seize the documents the government investigators 2 months earlier had examined and left behind.
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Pretty clear and cut and dry. Dont take documents from the white house. Dont break the rules and none of this occurs.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Here on Earth every US President since Herbert Hoover has a Presidential Library in which documents from their administration are displayed.
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Yep. And they all followed the same process for that to occur. Trump didn't though. There is the problem. Trump thinks the rules dont or shouldn't apply to him. Its his MO.
 
fishonjazz said:
Pretty clear and cut and dry. Dont take documents from the white house. Dont break the rules and none of this occurs.
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Isn't it funny how some people keep giving this guy mulligan after mulligan even though he has a long history of pretty shady activity?

Like... Can anyone honestly keep track of all the crimes he and his organization have committed?

This isn't exactly Mr. Rogers here. The guy is committing crimes every single day. Remember just a few years ago?

www.nytimes.com

Trump Denies Business Dealings With Russia. His Former Lawyer Contradicts Him. (Published 2018)

For years, the president has denied that he had any business interests in Russia during the 2016 election. His former personal lawyer now says otherwise.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

But he actually did have business dealings, attempting to build a Trump Tower Moscow?

Or what about his charity that misused funds and had to be dissolved?

www.npr.org

Judge Says Trump Must Pay $2 Million Over Misuse Of Foundation Funds

The money will go to a group of charities. The New York judge said money raised at a 2016 veterans fundraiser "was used for Mr. Trump's political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump's campaign staff."
www.npr.org www.npr.org

A New York judge has ruled that President Trump must pay $2 million in damages to settle claims that the Trump Foundation misused funds. The money will go to a group of charities, and the foundation is in the process of dissolving.
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Or Trump University? Again, just 2018:
www.usatoday.com

Judge finalizes $25 million Trump University settlement for students of 'sham university'

The '"victims of Donald Trump’s fraudulent university will finally receive the relief they deserve," New York's attorney general said.
www.usatoday.com

Or when he pretended to not understand that report's question about Stormy Daniels on AF1? "You'll uhhhh... Have to ask Michael Cohen about that... uhhhh gotta go do uhhh President stuff now, bye!"

And yet his cult keeps making excuses after excuses for him instead of just placing the blame where it so obviously deserves to be.
 

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) announced on Friday that she had filed articles of impeachment against Attorney General Merrick Garland

Greene’s resolution claims that the attorney general’s “personal approval to seek a search warrant for the raid on the home of the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, constitutes a blatant attempt to persecute a political opponent.”

The warrant was approved by a federal judge and was unsealed on Friday after the Justice Department and Trump’s attorneys agreed.

The warrant showed that the FBI secured classified materials that were taken to Mar-a-Lago and suggests the former president is being investigated for possible violations of the Espionage Act.

Oh MTG, you stupid ugly idiot you.
 

Documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home bore the US government’s highest top-secret rating, underscoring the sensitive nature of the material he took with him after leaving office.

Court documents unsealed Friday showed that FBI agents seized one box -- marked 2A -- containing “Various classified/TS/SCI documents. That’s shorthand for “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” the sort of information that the government normally requires to be read only in a protected room by people with high-level security clearances.

Other boxes contained “Miscellaneous Secret Documents,” “Miscellaneous Top Secret Documents,” and “Miscellaneous Confidential Documents,” according to an FBI property receipt included in the court documents. Another item was labeled only “info re: President of France.”

“This could be information about intercepted communications,” John Bellinger, a partner at Arnold & Porter who was legal adviser to the National Security Council under President George W. Bush, said in an interview with David Westin on Bloomberg Radio. “That’s very, very tightly controlled. If Trump took some of that off with him to Mar-a-Lago, he could declassify it, but it would certainly look bad if he tried to do it.”

The FBI’s search of Mar-a-Lago appeared to be the culmination of an 18-month effort by the National Archives and Records Administration to retrieve presidential records that were taken to the Florida resort.

“Disclosure of it would have a serious adverse impact on the national security,” Neil Eggleston, former White House counsel under President Barack Obama, said of the documents. “I can’t imagine why Trump would have this material. I just can’t imagine.”

“It’s just hard to know why this whole battle ensued and why President Trump didn’t simply return it when he was asked for it,” Eggleston said. “Presumably he would’ve said at the time we took this, we took it inadvertently.”
 

Donald Trump is under criminal investigation for potential violations of the Espionage Act and additional statutes relating to obstruction of justice and destroying federal government records, according to the search warrant executed by FBI agents at the former president’s home on Monday.

The search warrant – the contents of which were confirmed by the Guardian – shows the FBI was seeking evidence about whether the mishandling of classified documents by Trump, including some marked top secret, amounted to a violation of three criminal statutes.

Most notably, the search warrant authorized FBI agents to seize materials from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence to investigate crimes in connection with the Espionage Act, which outlaws the unauthorized retention of national security information that could harm the United States or aid an adversary.

The other statutes listed on the warrant include the federal law that makes it a crime to destroy or conceal a document in order to obstruct a government investigation, and the federal law that prohibits the unlawful removal of government documents more generally.

FBI agents retrieved a total of 11 sets of classified documents, some of which were marked top secret, the Wall Street Journal first reported. Federal agents also took away four sets of top secret documents, three sets of secret documents, and three sets of confidential documents, the receipt showed.

Trump lashed out at the justice department on Friday, saying in a statement that he had declassified all of the records in question. “It was all declassified,” Trump asserted.

The former president’s claim was met with immediate scepticism, partly because the seized documents appeared to retain their original classified markings, according to a source familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an open investigation.

Trump has offered no details about how the supposed declassification took place

But whether the former president actually declassified the documents may not ultimately matter. The Espionage Act, for instance, does not distinguish between classified and declassified materials – unauthorized retention of any document relevant to the statute remains a crime.

Documents marked as top secret are also meant only to be viewed in secure rooms known as a sensitive compartmented information facilities, or SCIF, and their presence in a basement storage area at Mar-a-Lago appears to satisfy the technical elements of a violation of law.

“If reports are accurate and contained among these documents are some of the most highly classified information our government holds – information classified as top secret/secure compartmented information – then it would explain a great deal about why the department and the FBI took the step of obtaining a warrant to recover the documents,” Schiff said.

“It appears that the FBI sought to remove those documents to a safe location previously, but Trump did not fully cooperate. Every day that information of such a classification sits in an unsecure location is a risk to our national security. If any other individual had information of that nature in their possession, the FBI would work quickly to mitigate the risks of disclosure.”


Of course, no president besides trump would pull this stunt.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
The FBI just conducted a raid of the former President of the United States over what is essentially overdue library books. You may think it was over a greater crime but you don't know that because the FBI doesn't believe it is answerable to the people. There has been no press conference explaining this action, or any action recently. What used to be handled by FBI press conference is now handled by releasing a prerecorded video statement to make it impossible for the press to ask questions. No one knows where Merrick Garland even is right now.
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That post was from yesterday. Oof. Big swing and a miss.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Trump could have taken a box filled with copies of the most super top secret documents the US government had, decided they were no longer classified and stuck them in trunk of his car. The issue with Trump is the Presidential Records Act which requires that all records, classified or unclassified, be preserved for the public by the National Archives and Records Administration.

If Trump had taken the only copy of something, that could land him in hot water, but using the FBI to conduct a massive raid because the National Archives thinks he might have something they don't have a copy of is an unprecedented abuse of power. There had better be more to the raid then tracking down what is essentially overdue library books because if there is not more then this is nothing short of the Democrats declaring that so long as they are in power, they have more guns and will use them for any reason against their political enemies.
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Most notably, the search warrant authorized FBI agents to seize materials from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence to investigate crimes in connection with the Espionage Act, which outlaws the unauthorized retention of national security information that could harm the United States or aid an adversary.

So he cant just take whatever he wants and stick it in the trunk of his car.

I hope you have recently learned something and now know this isn't true.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Trump has said that he was cooperating and the timeline shows that he was.
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Sorry, but no. Cooperation would have been allowing the document removal on June 3, or getting better security than a padlock.

Al-O-Meter said:
The government knew exactly what he had and they let him keep it in June.
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How do you know Trump didn't turn them away in June?

Al-O-Meter said:
j090MgW.png
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If true, and I don't know why you would believe this tweet, then those would not have been the classified files that were grabbed.
 
The Thriller said:
So predictable.

We’ve now moved onto the phase that Trump was too stupid to crime. This happens every ****ing time.

View: https://twitter.com/arifleischer/status/1557811888297230337?s=21&t=Z5dkoPDxadLqZz42JB19kw

The next phase will be, “so what? He did it? Whatever. The American government deserved this. After all, they’re the deep state that protects HunterHillaryantifahugochavezvotinachinesreleasethekraken!” Orange god king good.”

Just like Jan 6 has become a day of patriotism and glory for the right. Trump’s stealing of these documents will be seen as either totally innocent and/or completely justified by the right in a few days.
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We have now moved from “Trump was too stupid to know this was a crime” to the final phase, “We did it, it’s fine. In fact, what Trump did was the right thing to do.”


View: https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1558261235883311106?s=21&t=mlBiR5HB5dKYtyu4yC80dQ
 
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