1988-89 Season Question

Bit of a throwback question for the old-timers.

How meaningfully did the Jazz offensive/defensive schemes change after Layden quit and Jerry took over?

Was there never a meaningful change? Did Jerry immediately implement notable changes? Was that first season pretty similar, but going into '89-'90 it was different? Did Jerry slowly introduce more changes over the years? Somewhere in between?

Thanks old folks

Eminence said:

Bit of a throwback question for the old-timers.

How meaningfully did the Jazz offensive/defensive schemes change after Layden quit and Jerry took over?

Was there never a meaningful change? Did Jerry immediately implement notable changes? Was that first season pretty similar, but going into '89-'90 it was different? Did Jerry slowly introduce more changes over the years? Somewhere in between?

Thanks old folks

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No one old enough to know is also young enough to work the internet.

Handlogten's Heros said:

No one old enough to know is also young enough to work the internet.

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excuse me. i am 53, old enough to remember and young enough to work the internet. here is the thing. frank really wasnt much of a coach. he ran very simple schemes without much designed variations. players had lots a freedom to ab lib. jerry ran multiple different schemes with designed variation but no ad libbing and he demanded you play tough nosed defense. no free layups inside put people on the line. jerry really was a very different coach than frank. jerry played in the NBA and had the knowledge frank just did not have. Jerrys biggest problem was he could not adapt. when the 3 point line was introduced he simple failed or refused to use it as a weapon or guard it on defense. just my 2 cents.

oldtimer said:

excuse me. i am 53, old enough to remember and young enough to work the internet. here is the thing. frank really wasnt much of a coach. he ran very simple schemes without much designed variations. players had lots a freedom to ab lib. jerry ran multiple different schemes with designed variation but no ad libbing and he demanded you play tough nosed defense. no free layups inside put people on the line. jerry really was a very different coach than frank. jerry played in the NBA and had the knowledge frank just did not have. Jerrys biggest problem was he could not adapt. when the 3 point line was introduced he simple failed or refused to use it as a weapon or guard it on defense. just my 2 cents.

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Not sure if this'd be something you'd remember, but did you feel like Jerry introduced his concepts pretty quickly after becoming coach, or did that first season still have more of Layden's influence?

Eminence said:

Not sure if this'd be something you'd remember, but did you feel like Jerry introduced his concepts pretty quickly after becoming coach, or did that first season still have more of Layden's influence?

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in my opinion his concepts were immediately introduced the first yesr and some players really struggled with the different style of coaching. but your right i dont have great recall that is just my impression.

My memories with Frank coaching had Mark Eaton, so the defense was always good. I was young, and don't remember the defensive sets too much, but they had a good defensive team. I was lucky to come from a basketball centric family and we went to many games. I was pretty young, so don't have a ton of memories before Sloan.

I remember a lot of pick and roll action and they ran a lot and tried to have quick action with Dantley.

Frank ran Flex too, but Sloan ran a few different wrinkles more like Dick Motta's Flex. I wish I remembered more examples, but my overall impression is Frank had them push more, Sloan was more methodical to get good shots.

I loved some of Sloan's sets, but he did a lot of things that drove me nuts (sub patterns were a big one).

My memory is that the Jazz did a lot more running under Frank. We all thought Frank was a genius when he slowed it down and forced the Lakers into a half court game in the '88 playoffs, and pushed them to the brink of elimination. I still consider that (sadly) to be one of the greatest achievements in Jazz history.

Sloan took over after the Jazz got off to a slow start in '88. And, as I recall, we basically played the same offense, and pace that we used against the Lakers for the next 100 years. I'm not a basketball expert. But that's what it looked like to me. I don't know what (if anything) was different about the sets he ran. But it was all about using as much of the shot clock as they could. Forcing the defense to play the full 24 seconds.

I do think Jerry's offense was designed by Phil Johnson, who was also Frank's assistant. So, I think they were very similar. Obviously, Phil took a lot from Dick Motta.

Also, I remember Thurl Bailey playing at borderline all-star level that whole year until right before the playoffs. Then, he suddenly became a very mediocre player for no apparent reason. No injury. He wasn't old (27). He just lost all of his confidence, or forgot how to play. He was a train wreck against the Warriors when they swept us. His demise was always a mystery to me. He had been one of my favorite players, and seems like a great person.

Greasy84 said:

My memory is that the Jazz did a lot more running under Frank. We all thought Frank was a genius when he slowed it down and forced the Lakers into a half court game in the '88 playoffs, and pushed them to the brink of elimination. I still consider that (sadly) to be one of the greatest achievements in Jazz history.

Sloan took over after the Jazz got off to a slow start in '88. And, as I recall, we basically played the same offense, and pace that we used against the Lakers for the next 100 years. I'm not a basketball expert. But that's what it looked like to me. I don't know what (if anything) was different about the sets he ran. But it was all about using as much of the shot clock as they could. Forcing the defense to play the full 24 seconds.

I do think Jerry's offense was designed by Phil Johnson, who was also Frank's assistant. So, I think they were very similar. Obviously, Phil took a lot from Dick Motta.

Also, I remember Thurl Bailey playing at borderline all-star level that whole year until right before the playoffs. Then, he suddenly became a very mediocre player for no apparent reason. No injury. He wasn't old (27). He just lost all of his confidence, or forgot how to play. He was a train wreck against the Warriors when they swept us. His demise was always a mystery to me. He had been one of my favorite players, and seems like a great person.

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Perhaps Shaq bitch slapped him. I hear that will do it.