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Jazz trade Fonteccio to Pistons for 2024 2nd

Saint Cy of JFC said:
If you cant see the ridiculousness of comparing an unproven college prospect to a dude who was actually doing the thing.....
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Im comparing a player type. Dudes who play good defense and hit the 3 and have size. You hated hendricks before ever seeing him on an nba court. Why? If you like that type of player and think that type of player is great then you should love a player like hendricks.

You are doing that thing again where you wont talk ball when asked too. I love the irony and lack of self awareness.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
****ing hilarious how people who have actually watched him are just like "Lol its only 9 ppg or his defensive rating is only X"

Watch the damn games. The stuff he was providing was extremely valuable.
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He was playing in Hardy's system. Guarantee he does not do the same in Detroit.
 
One thing with Simone that I think changes his value is how much you really believe in his defense. His numbers are decent this year, but I'm not sure I'm totally bought in that he is a good defender. I think he might try hard, so in general he looks ok, but I wonder if he could get exposed if targeted in a playoff series.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
****ing hilarious how people who have actually watched him are just like "Lol its only 9 ppg or his defensive rating is only X"

Watch the damn games. The stuff he was providing was extremely valuable.
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Agreed. Now its gone. You dont like it. I dont like it. Cry harder.
 
TheStormofWar said:
What the **** are you babbling about?
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You said he has a -1 RPM, which is well above replacement level. The Jazz did not get a player back, this clearly suggest will get worse to some degree. You listed his defensive rating, which is the team defensive rating when he is on the floor. It is lower than the Jazz overall defensive rating, indicating that the Jazz are better with Simone on the floor defensively. Once again suggesting that we will be worse off. If you want to make the point that the Jazz are not worse off, I would not cite stats that imply that they are worse off without him.

Again, this doesn't really mean much to the point I was making. It was about what the Jazz think about Simone, not you or I. When a team in a playoff race trades their starting SF for picks, chances are they are not trying hard to win that race. That is the point. Just thought it was funny you posted evidence yourself.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
One thing with Simone that I think changes his value is how much you really believe in his defense. His numbers are decent this year, but I'm not sure I'm totally bought in that he is a good defender. I think he might try hard, so in general he looks ok, but I wonder if he could get exposed if targeted in a playoff series.
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One thing I know is that the defense is pretty crappy when kessler is on the bench. Regardless of if simone is in or not. Our defense also seems to be great if kessler is in. Even if simone is sitting on the bench.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Simone was a top 5 player this year and arguably the 3rd most important player in winning games this season. His spacing is what has allowed Sexton and Dunn to operate the way they operate.

Make a list. It's a broad category of players that I have no idea how you are defining it. Fringe top 20 is still an extremely valuable player. In a playoff series Simone's value only improves.
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Simone has been in the closing lineup in all of 11 games this year, shooting 25/22/0 in clutch minutes.

I hate arguing this though as I did like the guy.... but go find a paper bag.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
One thing with Simone that I think changes his value is how much you really believe in his defense. His numbers are decent this year, but I'm not sure I'm totally bought in that he is a good defender. I think he might try hard, so in general he looks ok, but I wonder if he could get exposed if targeted in a playoff series.
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Like most players it's matchup dependent. He's not guarding everyone, but he had played extremely impressive D on very good wings this season and generally competed hard.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
One thing with Simone that I think changes his value is how much you really believe in his defense. His numbers are decent this year, but I'm not sure I'm totally bought in that he is a good defender. I think he might try hard, so in general he looks ok, but I wonder if he could get exposed if targeted in a playoff series.
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I actually agree, I thought Simone was a tad overrated around here. He plays the kind of defense that is most visible to the eye. Value wise, I could see it either way depending on how his FA goes. But to me the bigger story here is that the Jazz have signaled that they aren't prioritizing the playoffs.
 
fishonjazz said:
Funny thing is that I think I liked simone more than almost everyone who is so upset by the trade. I had been calling for him to get around 35 minutes per game for months.
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He didn't need 35mpg.

But he was the real 3&D guy in this team, not Ochai (who keeps getting called that despite sucking on both sides of the ball lately).
 
TheStormofWar said:
Simone's value was spacing and defense. We have plenty of shooters, so that doesn't bother me. What this hinges on is either Hendricks finding his groove at the 4 enough for Lauri to work as a SF, or we have another deal. But I wouldn't overstate Simone's value on defense.
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We aren't a good shooting team. We needed to add not subtract shooters.
 
At least we won last night against a great team with simone scoring a total of 2 points on 1-4 shooting.
Thats a good sign.
 
KqWIN said:
You said he has a -1 RPM, which is well above replacement level. The Jazz did not get a player back, this clearly suggest will get worse to some degree. You listed his defensive rating, which is the team defensive rating when he is on the floor. It is lower than the Jazz overall defensive rating, indicating that the Jazz are better with Simone on the floor defensively. Once again suggesting that we will be worse off. If you want to make the point that the Jazz are not worse off, I would not cite stats that imply that they are worse off without him.

Again, this doesn't really mean much to the point I was making. It was about what the Jazz think about Simone, not you or I. When a team in a playoff race trades their starting SF for picks, chances are they are not trying hard to win that race. That is the point. Just thought it was funny you posted evidence yourself.
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Is the DL over?

Besides if this turns out to be the only trade we make its FAR FAR less tanky than the LA trade.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
He didn't need 35mpg.

But he was the real 3&D guy in this team, not Ochai (who keeps getting called that despite sucking on both sides of the ball lately).
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When did i say what he needed or anything about ochai. I said I liked simone so much I had been begging for him to get way more minutes for months now.
Weird response to what I posted.
 
HermanG said:
Simone has been in the closing lineup in all of 11 games this year, shooting 25/22/0 in clutch minutes.

I hate arguing this though as I did like the guy.... but go find a paper bag.
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IDK where you found the closing lineup stat. He has played in 11 clutch games (team high is Lauri at 16) which would suggest the number is *at least* 11, not 11.
 
I turn my back for a bit and Tec is gone and we’re 20 pages into a thread.

Initial reaction was that a 2nd seems a little light, but on reflection it’s like 3 draft spots worse than a Boston 1st and then people would have said ‘wow, we got a 1st for him’. Still, probably would have preferred to keep him. The real kick in the balls is having to take Knox.
 
HermanG said:
Is the DL over?

Besides if this turns out to be the only trade we make its FAR FAR less tanky than the LA trade.
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I’ve said over and over that if the pick gets rerouted it’s a different situation. Obviously it would. But if not, it’s a pretty clear as day signal that the Jazz FO is not prioritizing the playoffs this year.
 
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