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Trader Danny

Chris

Chris

Well-Known Member
The Jazz are my team and have been since Stockton & Malone. But I live in MA and the Celtics are my second favorite and I have gotten to know Danny's tendencies over the years. He is a mixture of 4 things, most of which we have already seen in Utah.

1. He's open to trading anyone if it significantly improves his team and he can "win" the deal. 2. He loves acquiring draft picks -- because he realizes their value to other GMs, where sometimes certain roster players he has can be polarizing and prevent deals from being done. 3. Sometimes he truly intends to take big swings and he misses or the deal isn't right -- and the fan base ends up getting upset going into the next season because they thought there were going to be "fireworks." 4. He believes in high school tape, upside, and players that other GMs might overlook. He also likes to draft and develop those players.

I know the same could be said of multiple other GMs in the league, but whatever happens this summer, these principles will apply.
 
Chris said:
The Jazz are my team and have been since Stockton & Malone. But I live in MA and the Celtics are my second favorite and I have gotten to know Danny's tendencies over the years. He is a mixture of 4 things, most of which we have already seen in Utah.

1. He's open to trading anyone if it significantly improves his team and he can "win" the deal. 2. He loves acquiring draft picks -- because he realizes their value to other GMs, where sometimes certain roster players he has can be polarizing and prevent deals from being done. 3. Sometimes he truly intends to take big swings and he misses or the deal isn't right -- and the fan base ends up getting upset going into the next season because they thought there were going to be "fireworks." 4. He believes in high school tape, upside, and players that other GMs might overlook. He also likes to draft and develop those players.

I know the same could be said of multiple other GMs in the league, but whatever happens this summer, these principles will apply.
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I have no issues with what he’s done other than not clearly tanking to start a season. For the life of me I don’t know why they traded away our two all stars and Bogey but didn’t trade Conley and a couple others. It was dumb. We possibly could’ve had one of Vic, or Miller along with Key and Brice. If the team had put more emphasis on tanking before the season this team might be way ahead of the curve.
 
One thing that annoys me about Ainge is that in the early stages of rebuilds he loves drafting BPAs and trading for undervalued players without any regard for their fit and team needs. That's how we end up with zero defense 1-3 or with Collins, Fontecchio and Hendrix fighting for minutes. Danny knows that he will need to start caring about the team construction and fit only years later.

As a fan it is frustrating to see the team of misfits play, and I can only imagine the level of frustration of coaches. Also, you develop feelings for new Jazz players ... and then, bang! - they are suddenly gone.
 
jazznik said:
One thing that annoys me about Ainge is that in the early stages of rebuilds he loves drafting BPAs and trading for undervalued players without any regard for their fit and team needs. That's how we end up with zero defense 1-3 or with Collins, Fontecchio and Hendrix fighting for minutes. Danny knows that he will need to start caring about the team construction and fit only years later.

As a fan it is frustrating to see the team of misfits play, and I can only imagine the level of frustration of coaches. Also, you develop feelings for new Jazz players ... and then, bang! - they are suddenly gone.
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I guess he could draft for fit and team needs and trade for fit and team needs and we could be the 9th seed and that might be cool. I figure he is thinking bigger than that and further down the road than the current season though.

I do agree that rebuilding is frustrating though.
 
jazznik said:
One thing that annoys me about Ainge is that in the early stages of rebuilds he loves drafting BPAs and trading for undervalued players without any regard for their fit and team needs. That's how we end up with zero defense 1-3 or with Collins, Fontecchio and Hendrix fighting for minutes. Danny knows that he will need to start caring about the team construction and fit only years later.

As a fan it is frustrating to see the team of misfits play, and I can only imagine the level of frustration of coaches. Also, you develop feelings for new Jazz players ... and then, bang! - they are suddenly gone.
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You don’t draft for fit. You sign the best talent you can if there’s a cluster that’s a good problem to have. The cream rise and the others are assets.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
I have no issues with what he’s done other than not clearly tanking to start a season. For the life of me I don’t know why they traded away our two all stars and Bogey but didn’t trade Conley and a couple others. It was dumb. We possibly could’ve had one of Vic, or Miller along with Key and Brice. If the team had put more emphasis on tanking before the season this team might be way ahead of the curve.
Click to expand...

This is by far the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen this franchise do, and it’s exactly why I don’t trust or believe anything Ryan or Danny say about how they are committed to building a championship team… I can’t believe it’s such a controversial opinion, especially on Twitter and Reddit which is full of people who think Danny and Ryan are front office gods who can do no wrong.

You trade 4 starters away, say you are committing to rebuilding, and then don’t even give yourself a chance at getting a once in a generation prospect in the draft. It’s completely inexcusable
 
Brian Peppers said:
This is by far the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen this franchise do, and it’s exactly why I don’t trust or believe anything Ryan or Danny say about how they are committed to building a championship team… I can’t believe it’s such a controversial opinion, especially on Twitter and Reddit which is full of people who think Danny and Ryan are front office gods who can do no wrong.

You trade 4 starters away, say you are committing to rebuilding, and then don’t even give yourself a chance at getting a once in a generation prospect in the draft. It’s completely inexcusable
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Why is probabilty math so hard for yall?

So many people here act like the best possible 1/7 odds would have all but guaranteed us Wemby while our 1/21 odds meant "we had no chance".

Odds are stacked against you either way. The team with the absolute worst record picks 5th almost 50% of the time.. like the Pistons did last year.
 
HermanG said:
Why is probabilty math so hard for yall?

So many people here act like the best possible 1/7 odds would have all but guaranteed us Wemby while our 1/21 odds meant "we had no chance".

Odds are stacked against you either way. The team with the absolute worst record picks 5th almost 50% of the time.. like the Pistons did last year.
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Still makes more sense to get the best odds possible at picking wemby than half assing a tank and getting worse odds though.

Finishing with a bottom three record gives you better odds at the #1 pick than finishing with the 9th worst record correct?
Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
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HermanG said:
Why is probabilty math so hard for yall?

So many people here act like the best possible 1/7 odds would have all but guaranteed us Wemby while our 1/21 odds meant "we had no chance".

Odds are stacked against you either way. The team with the absolute worst record picks 5th almost 50% of the time.. like the Pistons did last year.
Click to expand...
Here's what could have happened in a "proper" tank (an alternate timeline, if you will):
1. Summer 2022: Ainge quickly moves all the vets before the season starts. Conley, Bogie, Bev, Beas, etc., all get moved separately for 2nd round picks and filler. Other teams aren't as desperate to give up assets until they see what they have on their own team--and besides, nobody has any respect for this Utah Jazz team full of dregs, so asking for 2nd rounders might even be a bit much. Oh, and we don't sign an old rookie out of Italy, because we're properly tanking.
2. The Jazz have a terrible record-- perhaps the worst in the league. Lauri looks okay, but without the vets, he isn't looking like the Lauri we've come to value, and certainly isn't an all-star. Fans are also a little annoyed, watching Conley help another team overachieve when all we got back was a 2nd rounder (because his salary was so high).
3. Summer 2023: The lottery balls give us the 3rd pick! We get Scoot in the draft! Charlotte was so stupid. We're all elated. Year one of the tank was worth it!
4. Again, fully intending on tanking the next year, Ainge gets an offer for this version of Lauri. Another GM offers a couple of future 1st rounders and Ainge bites, because Lauri's a little older and doesn't fit the timeline. Good riddance we say.
5. Fast forward to the 2023-24 season. Once play starts, fans are flabbergasted to see Lauri having an all-star level year with another team. Our #3 pick, Scoot, is being outplayed by this Lakers kid, Key-note George, who was drafted way lower than our savior Scoot. Since we went with a guard early, our 2nd pick was a wing named Howard from Michigan.
6. Summer 2024: Now Jazz fans are hollering about trading good players like Conley and Lauri for scraps, Ainge drafting busts, and us having a coach who might not look so good at this point because of the lack of talent he has had to work with.
 
fishonjazz said:
Still makes more sense to get the best odds possible at picking wemby than half assing a tank and getting worse odds though.

Finishing with a bottom three record gives you better odds at the #1 pick than finishing with the 9th worst record correct?
Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
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Thats just hindsight. Once we sucked in preseason and then started 10-3 no one knew what we had and what the hell was happening.

Blowing it up then and there is so easy to declare now, after the fact, but werent you the one who made the championship tank thread?

The best way to tank would have been to take the Knicks offer. You wanna go back to choose that?
 
HermanG said:
Thats just hindsight. Once we sucked in preseason and then started 10-3 no one knew what we had and what the hell was happening.

Blowing it up then and there is so easy to declare now, after the fact, but werent you the one who made the championship tank thread?

The best way to tank would have been to take the Knicks offer. You wanna go back to choose that?
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It's not hindsight lol.
I wanted Conley and Clarkson traded before the season started and didn't want to trade for Collins. I wanted to roll with rookies (Ochai and Kessler), scrubs (tht and the like) and rest Lauri and Sexton a ton.

Do you think we would have been more tanky having followed that plan?

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
HermanG said:
Why is probabilty math so hard for yall?

So many people here act like the best possible 1/7 odds would have all but guaranteed us Wemby while our 1/21 odds meant "we had no chance".

Odds are stacked against you either way. The team with the absolute worst record picks 5th almost 50% of the time.. like the Pistons did last year.
Click to expand...
Oh sure, now you're going to tell me I'm better off "investing" my money rather than spending $800 a month on lottery tickets. To win a billion dollars. A billion.

Yeah, sure, whatever boomer. :rolleyes:
 
HermanG said:
Why is probabilty math so hard for yall?

So many people here act like the best possible 1/7 odds would have all but guaranteed us Wemby while our 1/21 odds meant "we had no chance".

Odds are stacked against you either way. The team with the absolute worst record picks 5th almost 50% of the time.. like the Pistons did last year.
Click to expand...

I never said it would guarantee us Wemby.. but it would have increased our odds at getting a chance at him.. and personally, when a player like that comes around, and you are already starting over anyway, then you could and should give yourself the best possible chance you can at getting them.. and if it doesn’t work, that’s fine. At least you actually tried.

It’s baffling to me that people act like they did the right thing by holding on to guys Conley etc for half a season, only to tank half the year anyway… and then we did the exact same thing again this year. And now I have to pretend to be excited about Taylor Hendrick’s potential for the next 3-4 years rather than someone like Miller, or the Thompson twins.

A franchise going nowhere should never be satisfied getting a 9th pick year in and year out.

Edit: had to mess with this post because this site on mobile is horrific.
 
Brian Peppers said:
This is by far the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen this franchise do, and it’s exactly why I don’t trust or believe anything Ryan or Danny say about how they are committed to building a championship team… I can’t believe it’s such a controversial opinion, especially on Twitter and Reddit which is full of people who think Danny and Ryan are front office gods who can do no wrong.

You trade 4 starters away, say you are committing to rebuilding, and then don’t even give yourself a chance at getting a once in a generation prospect in the draft. It’s completely inexcusable
Click to expand...
You say the Jazz “don’t even give yourself a chance at getting a once in a generation prospect.” Demonstrably false.
 
homeytennis said:
The Bulls appear to be ready to blow up their team. I'm sure Ainge will offer to help them in their time of need.
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Should have moved Demar at the deadline. They super dumb. I think they may still end up re-signing him.
 
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