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"1984" or "Brave New World"?

Red

Well-Known Member
Methinks I do protest too much. About Trump that is. But, this is not another Trump thread really. Despite the fact that some folks here apparently see me as a bash-Trump-leftist-run-amuck, in all honestly, while my bias is clearly as anti-Trump as it can get(heck, if he enacts his anti-science climate agenda, I will interpret that as crimes against humanity without hesitation), on a personal motive level, I'm trying to look at recent years as a social scientist would. I just want to know how we arrived at this point in history. I want to stand outside my own culture, my own society, and see it as if I were not a part of it. Because I think that's how you gain fresh perspective. It's an impossible task when you come down to it. But sometimes I look at it this way: I'm a visitor from another planet and I'm observing this society and culture. What do I see? If you had spent much of your life looking at the world through the eyes of social science, you might be as mesmerized by Trump and Trumpism as I am. But I've never attempted to hide my bias at all.

It does bother me a tad that I will be seen as just a Trump basher, as somebody who's completely over the top and blind to his own bias. It bothers me because I do believe I've made every effort to add links and thoughts that will actually help others better understand the era in which we live. Writing helps me better understand. And I sincerely hope that links I've added ever since Trump emerged have in fact helped people understand better.

With that in mind, I came across a couple of articles recently that might in fact help us understand what exactly has changed in American society over the last several decades that can help us understand where we are. This was an eye opener to me, and because it seemed to offer that kind of detached perspective that I always am looking for, that ability to see the present circumstances of my society and culture as if I were a visitor from another planet, I thought this sounded like interesting food for thought in that respect. So, I've yet to explore this to any detailed degree. I've yet to read the book in question in fact. I have read both "1984" and "Brave New World", but not in decades.

That said, since many are quick to reference "1984" as some kind of prescient template describing our present circumstances, I found the suggestion that "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley might be more prescient then Orwell an interesting idea that might be worth exploring if it shed light on changes in our society over recent decades.

So, I am posting this for those who enjoy delving into stuff like this, those who might be looking for the same broadest perspective as possible as I am. So, you don't have to see this as still another anti-Trump thread, because I myself don't believe it is. It's offered for its potential educational value. And I freely admit, I'm just being introduced to these thoughts myself.....

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ves-to-death-neil-postman-trump-orwell-huxley

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...ostman-predict-the-rise-of-trump-and-fak.html
 
"It Can't Happen Hear" by Upton Sinclair is the closest to what we're experiencing today - ironically I never even heard of the book until about 3 years ago when my Dad bought it for me for Christmas. Quite frankly when I read it I didn't even think it was that great. But the parallels between the Trump Candidacy/demeanor and the main character in the novel are hauntingly similar.

1984 and Brave New World are more like "20 years after Trump"
 
I think this is a phase of the social transition we live in. It is happening/ will happen to the entire world. A lot of changes happened since smart phones and social media had become an essential part of our lives. Many things that we saw as taboos broke their chains and started to become a fact of our society. And just like every other change, it faces its opposite vector, challenger of the dialect. Whenever you push to change an object's place, something else will try to make it harder and resist the change. When change happens in social life, more uneducated and insecure people tend to get closer to the ones that offer to bash the change wind that threatens their values. And if this is a person that acts like the strongest and most careless person on earth, they get drawn to his presence like flies get drawn to blue light. They worship the power. I see this tendency of backwards moves in changing societies as the part of the dialect's nature of conflict.


I post, therefore I am.
 
funny how left wings now are intersetd in these books. but fail to see the irony

You're right. It should've happened after 9/11 when Bush made himself dictator. He ignored legislation for executive privilege and violated the Geneva Convention. Arrests without warrants, detaining suspected criminals indefinitely, and torturing people not only violates the constitution but also the Geneva Convention. The Bush Regime should be tried for war crimes.

Had Americans become interested in these books back then then we certainly could've avoided a lot of mistakes committed from 2000-08 of which we still have yet to recover from.

Get Educated
 
You're right. It should've happened after 9/11 when Bush made himself dictator. He ignored legislation for executive privilege and violated the Geneva Convention. Arrests without warrants, detaining suspected criminals indefinitely, and torturing people not only violates the constitution but also the Geneva Convention. The Bush Regime should be tried for war crimes.

Had Americans become interested in these books back then then we certainly could've avoided a lot of mistakes committed from 2000-08 of which we still have yet to recover from.

Get Educated
these books always get mentioned by right wingers no matter who is in office.
 
Whereas when Pence takes over, the book of the day will be Handmaid's Tale...

And, btw, the series looks really good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrDTDEmS4c
 
Srs..... people....

fictional depictions of socialism are just that. I invoke the Game Theorem of Reality to declare that nobody, but nobody, has the time to be concerned with all the details of human aspirations, intentions, dreams, hopes, beliefs, or even just actions. Control has always got to involve mass psychological tools potent enough to induce voluntary compliance. . . .
 
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