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TheGoldStandard

Well-Known Member
2022 Prediction Contest Winner
What I am worried most about this whole thing is that Mitchell just doesn't get it.

He said that we definitely need to win the next game. We don't need a win, we just need to play better defense. It's a process, can't just go into the game leaning into the offense to win us games. Sure, it's great and it wins us some games but we have seen time and time again that it doesn't translate into playoff wins.

Wins aren't all that important, we beat ****** teams enough to guarantee homecourt. We all thought we went into the season with the mindset that we needed to improve. To be fair, we did try some stuff, Rudy at level, more hedging, trapping, zone, small ball. They weren't consistent, they didn't stick. Now I understand clearly why, the guys just didn't care enough to make it work. They talk the talk for sure, though.

I am going to be watching Denver game with extra attention.
I think he gets it. He played good D in college, and improved a ton. He isn't that guy anymore, either because he doesn't care, or has a coach that doesn't know how to teach or emphasize good D.

This team rarely takes charges, does not know how to anticipate and slip a screen, and leaves opponents wide open too often.
 


Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
I think he gets it. He played good D in college, and improved a ton. He isn't that guy anymore, either because he doesn't care, or has a coach that doesn't know how to teach or emphasize good D.

This team rarely takes charges, does not know how to anticipate and slip a screen, and leaves opponents wide open too often.
I agree with some of this… side note… I swear Joe would take one charge a game if he’d just fall down. He takes it in the chest like a man but doesn’t do the BS acting so no call…

Another side note… charges aren’t a real basketball play and they should change the rule to stop rewarding guys from standing like a statue and then going limp… the should reward real defense instead.
 

SoUjazzfan

Well-Known Member
If it comes down to it and we're keeping Quin then Gobert has to stay. If Mitchell is the chosen one Quin has to go. His schemes obviously require Gobert. It's too bad egos are so strong with this team and they can't come to a consensus and work together. Maybe put Don and Rudy on an episode of Dr. Phil and see if they can work it out.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
On Andy’s last podcast he mentioned that part of the reason the small ball lineups hadn’t worked is they hadn’t practiced it… so they were “learning to dance on the ball room floor”. Also said Quin is so detailed that when something doesn’t work he thinks it’s not because the strategy wasn’t sound… it’s because one guy came too far out or took a bad angle. Basically confirming our “Quin is not flexible enough” idea that we have floated for years.
Yes if they would just do what he writes on the back of the napkin it would be flawless. It's not the napkin's fault, no reason to doubt the napkin.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
2022 Prediction Contest Winner
I think he gets it. He played good D in college, and improved a ton. He isn't that guy anymore, either because he doesn't care, or has a coach that doesn't know how to teach or emphasize good D.

This team rarely takes charges, does not know how to anticipate and slip a screen, and leaves opponents wide open too often.

I think he has improved tremendously on offense, he is one of the few best PnR scorers in the league and generally makes good decisions out of it. He has been more efficient around the rim. He has added an aspect every season. That's all true but he has regressed a ton on defense. Some of it is that he is the primary creator and had been burdened with it too much. Jazz had some line-ups that didn't work towards him in his early years but he is now playing with Conley who not only spaces the floor but handles the playmaking duties. Bogey who gives him space and steps up when needed. Clarkson is there so we don't lose offense. Royce, Ingles, Gay all spaces the floor for our spread PnR offense that allows Mitchell to feast. He should be much more active on defense because his offensive load isn't the same anymore. It's much less.

What he doesn't get, I think, is less that he needs to play defense. He acknowledges that he needs to step up, says just need to it all the time. The problem is that he doesn't think it's a process. He believes that, probably subconsciously, he can go out there and play defense. It just doesn't work like that. There needs to be repetition, cohesion. Defense is not an individual concept.

I firmly believe Quin is a great coach, there is only so much you can do if the guys aren't coachable. I repeat myself but Quin did have great defensive teams and lost too many defensive players when we changed our identity. He won't be and shouldn't be with the Jazz next year but I find it hard to blame him.
 

TheGoldStandard

Well-Known Member
2022 Prediction Contest Winner
I think he has improved tremendously on offense, he is one of the few best PnR scorers in the league and generally makes good decisions out of it. He has been more efficient around the rim. He has added an aspect every season. That's all true but he has regressed a ton on defense. Some of it is that he is the primary creator and had been burdened with it too much. Jazz had some line-ups that didn't work towards him in his early years but he is now playing with Conley who not only spaces the floor but handles the playmaking duties. Bogey who gives him space and steps up when needed. Clarkson is there so we don't lose offense. Royce, Ingles, Gay all spaces the floor for our spread PnR offense that allows Mitchell to feast. He should be much more active on defense because his offensive load isn't the same anymore. It's much less.

What he doesn't get, I think, is less that he needs to play defense. He acknowledges that he needs to step up, says just need to it all the time. The problem is that he doesn't think it's a process. He believes that, probably subconsciously, he can go out there and play defense. It just doesn't work like that. There needs to be repetition, cohesion. Defense is not an individual concept.

I firmly believe Quin is a great coach, there is only so much you can do if the guys aren't coachable. I repeat myself but Quin did have great defensive teams and lost too many defensive players when we changed our identity. He won't be and shouldn't be with the Jazz next year but I find it hard to blame him.
Agree about his improvement on offense, I was talking about D. He improved tremendously in college.

Disagree Quin is a good coach. He was playing checkers while Ty Lue appeared to be playing chess. ****ing Ty Lue.

Quin's teams have been good on D with Rudy. Really bad pre-Rudy starting.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
2022 Prediction Contest Winner
Agree about his improvement on offense, I was talking about D. He improved tremendously in college.

Disagree Quin is a good coach. He was playing checkers while Ty Lue appeared to be playing chess. ****ing Ty Lue.

Quin's teams have been good on D with Rudy. Really bad pre-Rudy starting.
Oh, I don't know much about his college years, just his last year. But guys change and some are more stubborn when they are big time. It wasn't like Mitchell was a consensus no1 pick, may be if he was we would see it earlier. Kinda like Zion.

Ty Lue narrative is weird. It just happened because he coached Lebron but he is not a bad coach.

Pre-Rudy we had Enes Kanter starting and we were young. Enes Kanter never improved on defense. I think that's natural.

Hayward improved defensively under him that he was almost at the same level with George and Butler before his injuries. Gobert also improved his defending in space. Niang improved as well. I don't think Quin is short on guys that have improved defensively. Some guys get there, some don't. We just happen to gave quite a few that doesn't look like they will get there.

Maybe firing Quin or him resigning lights a fire under them.
 

whatthe

Well-Known Member
Rudy plays exceptionally well above 10ft. Don plays remarkably well at everything below 10ft. And yet they can't work with each others strengths. I think Rudy is overblowing the defense issue. Unless you have 3 seven footers or a team of 6-9+ wings, your team will get cooked defensively. Offenses are that good. Realistically the win margin is usually 2 to 3 baskets. That only 2 to 3 plays in total the whole game. My expectations for the current make up of the Jazz is not to be perfect on defense but to be better than the other team just two or three plays for each player on the Jazz than the competition.
 

fallenchicken

Well-Known Member
I'm a massive fan of Gobert but I don't think the fanbase, who loves him for good reason, understand that the teams' weaknesses do stem from gobert too. He is a max player, takes up a huge percentage of our cap, and is incredibly limited offensively. We've had to build a team around him. In the modern NBA, if you have a guy who can't shoot, and who doesn't have any post moves or mid-range game even, you have two have four offensive players around him. Remember, before the conley and bogey signings, this team was limited offensively. We had no chance in the playoffs every year. If Gobert is one of your max guys, you have to get creative around him. I'm not saying I don't appreciate Gobert, but this idea that the choice between him and Mitchell, if we ever had to make a choice, isn't as obvious as you think. Gobert might be the most valuable regular season player in the league, certainly on our team he is. But in the playoffs, Gobert becomes less valuable. Mitchell becomes more valuable. It's just a fact. Good teams with elite rosters can take Gobert out of the post and neutralize him. He can't take you to the finals being the best player. You need a Mitchell.
 

SoberasHotRod

Well-Known Member
Oh man it’s worse…


I can't believe that Quin is taking about, "peaking too early." Like, I know it's talked about in the media, but feels like crazy talk from a head coach. I think "peaking" is mostly when your team is hitting shots and is probably mostly random/uncontrollable.

This is probably the most crazy quote I've seen from Quin.
 


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