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Tank, Ty, and Tomorrow

billyshelby

Well-Known Member
Not much time to post, but I've lurked, watched the games, and I have a few thoughts.

The Tank: I see some consternation about this, but I think Lindsey has this under control. First, he knew Ty wouldn't get anything out of this team and the recent "success" doesn't change that. Second, I'm positive he'll shed RJef and Marv quickly if we start to win a little too much. He knows they're both worthless assets relative to our draft position, and nothing they could bring back would justify finishing 8th worst compared to 3rd worst. The Bynum/RJef rumor alone leads me to believe he's managing this correctly.

The Ty: Ty is a bad pro basketball coach who will definitely be fired. I could get into the minutia of it, but there seems to be this fallacy of equating Ty "changing" to Ty "evolving". First off, it takes Ty forever to change. It took him years to unravel us from the antiquated flex. On D, I've never figured out what Ty's defensive philosophy is other than forcing middle instead of baseline. As I've said in the past, he seems to be a teacher of fundamentals without a scheme which is not ideal for a head coach. Getting into the nitty gritty of our sets and defense would take too long...

But the macro is easy enough to see. On offense, we've been one of the bottom 5 teams in attempted 3's per game since he took over. At the same time, we've gone from 11th in team assists in Al/Milsap 2012 to 24th this year. So we don't shoot 3's, AND we get few assisted baskets. Two takeaways from this. 1) Ty actually doesn't believe 3's are important (as obvious as it is damning); 2) leaving "black hole Al-fense" last year has actually resulted in LESS efficient team offense. Lets not forget, we're currently 26th in offensive efficiency, last in defense at the moment.

The Tomorrow: Other than securing the draft pick, the only real issue is Hayward. Relative to market, he's an 11 to 12 million dollar a year player. He's not worth that much, of course, but that's his price since the RFA process will jack up the sticker. My guess is Lindsey will quietly look to deal Hayward, but will likely roll the dice to match an 11/12 offer. Personally, I think Burks will ultimately be the better player, and my concern is trading Burks to accommodate a Hayward deal. People will disagree, but I think Burks has star potential, Hayward doesn't, and committing to Hayward ahead of Burks would be a mistake.

Anyway, go Jazz. But this year, that means lose, which I'm rooting for, but is very strange.
 
What makes you think George Karl wouldn't want to coach the Jazz if it were offered to him?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Not much time to post, but I've lurked, watched the games, and I have a few thoughts.

The Tank: I see some consternation about this, but I think Lindsey has this under control. First, he knew Ty wouldn't get anything out of this team and the recent "success" doesn't change that. Second, I'm positive he'll shed RJef and Marv quickly if we start to win a little too much. He knows they're both worthless assets relative to our draft position, and nothing they could bring back would justify finishing 8th worst compared to 3rd worst. The Bynum/RJef rumor alone leads me to believe he's managing this correctly.

The Ty: Ty is a bad pro basketball coach who will definitely be fired. I could get into the minutia of it, but there seems to be this fallacy of equating Ty "changing" to Ty "evolving". First off, it takes Ty forever to change. It took him years to unravel us from the antiquated flex. On D, I've never figured out what Ty's defensive philosophy is other than forcing middle instead of baseline. As I've said in the past, he seems to be a teacher of fundamentals without a scheme which is not ideal for a head coach. Getting into the nitty gritty of our sets and defense would take too long...

But the macro is easy enough to see. On offense, we've been one of the bottom 5 teams in attempted 3's per game since he took over. At the same time, we've gone from 11th in team assists in Al/Milsap 2012 to 24th this year. So we don't shoot 3's, AND we get few assisted baskets. Two takeaways from this. 1) Ty actually doesn't believe 3's are important (as obvious as it is damning); 2) leaving "black hole Al-fense" last year has actually resulted in LESS efficient team offense. Lets not forget, we're currently 26th in offensive efficiency, last in defense at the moment.

The Tomorrow: Other than securing the draft pick, the only real issue is Hayward. Relative to market, he's an 11 to 12 million dollar a year player. He's not worth that much, of course, but that's his price since the RFA process will jack up the sticker. My guess is Lindsey will quietly look to deal Hayward, but will likely roll the dice to match an 11/12 offer. Personally, I think Burks will ultimately be the better player, and my concern is trading Burks to accommodate a Hayward deal. People will disagree, but I think Burks has star potential, Hayward doesn't, and committing to Hayward ahead of Burks would be a mistake.

Anyway, go Jazz. But this year, that means lose, which I'm rooting for, but is very strange.


I agree with most of it. I think Gordon looks like he is in his prime right now, but if you put this guy in a team that he has less responsibility to set the play and nail spot up threes, he would be more successful in 3 pointers, hence the salary rises up.


The roster piece that is called the Core is still young and I would love the Jazz to have a coach who knows how to build a young team into a contender with the right additions either from draft picks or from trades. This Jazz team has so much potential to become a contender that it bugs me they would got separated before they can achieve a real success.
 
I think Burks will ultimately be the better player, and my concern is trading Burks to accommodate a Hayward deal. People will disagree, but I think Burks has star potential, Hayward doesn't, and committing to Hayward ahead of Burks would be a mistake.

This
 
We've clashed on some topics, but you're a good sport and you take the time to formulate your thoughts which is nice. Please stick around.

As for the post, I'm not 100% in agreement on every detail, but it's solid from where I sit.
 
I knew you'd come around. Good post.

I'll be scarce. No time for the daily, but lots of good posters here that I like to check in with as the season progresses. I'm usually behind, catching up on DVR, and this happens to be a rare moment when I'm up to date.
 
What makes you think George Karl wouldn't want to coach the Jazz if it were offered to him?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using JazzFanz mobile app

Karl's a great coach AND at the end of his career AND hasn't won a championship. My guess is he'll hold out for a more championship ready team. Even with a top pick, we're a project.

That said, if the right offers aren't there and he has the itch, he could be seduced.

I love Karl. Unscientifically, just from watching, he's a master of turning 5 on 5 into 3 on 3 or 2 on 2 on the offensive side (lots of cuts, motion, fluidity, not the clunky "plays" Ty is always trying to run.) His teams always run. They always shoot 3's. They always share the ball. They're always Top 10 in offensive efficiency, and he did that with a star team (Melo) and the starless teams after. I see him on the same level as Pop, he's just never had all the right pieces. Not sure about the defense, but they play so up tempo that they were probably middle of the pack.

Point is, I have often wistfully lit candles wondering what Karl could do with this team. David Locke likes to pretend that we're so untalented we should literally lose every game before we play it (just so he can say how great Ty was when we almost won.) But the reality is if Karl coaches this team, we'd be closer to Phoenix than in the basement.
 
George K cannot manage a locker room which is part of the gig. Stay as far away from him as possilbe.
 
Few thoughts on the players, in order of most impressed:

1. Favors. The defense is obvious, the signs of an offensive player show up every game. He'll never be a PnR monster like healthy Stoudemire, but he's already better than Chandler. His contract is phenomenal.

2. Burks. Most impressed by his passing. Shooting on jumpers a close second. His game is a little constrained as he learns to play within an offense, but he needs more license to just take guys off the dribble. We only see this when the shot clock is winding down (and as a side note, there should be a concerted effort to get the ball in his hands when the shot clock is winding down). A good coach (not Ty) would set him free a little more. He's obviously a better driver one on one than on the PnR and that skill is being stifled. Alec's future in the league is on a team (I hope its ours) that lets him beat the guy right in front of him when he sees mismatches.

3. Burke. I thought he was going to be a dud but he's proved me wrong. He's not a great shooter, but he has this uncanny ability to make needed shots, and his propensity for great games gives me a lot of hope. He also has great potential as a PnR playmaker. Like Burks, he has an unteachable attribute: he doesn't care. He will play the same way every game and is totally convinced he will make the next shot he takes even if he's missed the last 100.

4. Hayward. Unlike Burke and Burks, Hayward pretends at confidence. On bad shooting nights (which are often) his tactic is to "aggressively" drive (with no idea of shooting) and kick. It's translating into assists, but at some point teams will realize he has no hope to score on the drive, will stay home on the perimeter, and let him flail one on one if he has the nerve to actually shoot. His flaws this season are predictable. He's always been a poor driver, a poor finisher on drives, he hasn't developed a runner, and he's shooting about 8 more times than he should on a more talented team. That said, I'm impressed he's stayed healthy, his transition D is superb, and he has great passing instincts. Not as good as AK in his prime, but better in some areas. In current terms, he's a less talented Gallinari, but should be a very useful starter on the right team so long as he's not overpaid.

Otherwise, Kanter just needs to play more (hard to figure out his minutes), Jeremy has been surprisingly useful, and I wish Gobert was playing. Otherwise, I don't care about any other player we have.
 
You mean half of the game of basketball? That's not exactly a detail.

He also has a reputation of his teams collapsing when the stakes are highest.

Meh.

Playoff failures are definitely a knock against Karl. My opinion is he overachieved with all the teams he had, and very few starless teams have advanced to the finals. Defensively, I didn't watch his teams enough to opine, and I haven't looked up the stats, but I know he never had a Favors in the middle. I think Favors is the best chip we have in making a pitch to Karl.
 
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