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To the "we're better without Conley" crew

infection

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
Winning percentage with Conley: 57.1% (12-9)
Winning percentage without Conley: 75% (9-3)

Winning percentage against .500 or above teams with Conley: 40% (4-6)
Winning percentage against .500 or above teams without Conley: 25% (1-3)

Winning percentage against below .500 teams with Conley: 80% (8-2)
Winning percentage against below .500 teams without Conley: 100% (8-0)

Percentage of games played against sub .500 teams with Conley: 52.4% (11/21)
Percentage of games played against sub .500 teams without Conley: 66.6% (8/12)

Good news for the boo birds: we play 15 games in January and only 4 are against teams with a winning record, and three of those are on the 25th or later, so we can pile up those easy wins and have Conley come back when our schedule gets hard again as we go through a stretch of playing a bunch of playoff teams, and we can have further evidence that we're "better without Conley."

If every time Conley sits it means we play easy teams, then trade teh conleys!!!11
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
That doesn't factor in Clarkson who is making a big difference in bench production. The eyeball test tells us that team plays better without Mike, at least so far.


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You're right, it doesn't factor him in. And you know what? They're not mutually exclusive. So we've had three games where Clarkson has played and boosted us.. so just like in algebra where what you do to one side, you have to do to the other, it has to be factored in when you're saying we're "better without Conley."
 
NAOS said:
@DL and @JZanik

Get Conley a pick-n-pop big, pls. End this discussion.
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Wood
Baynes
Bjelica
Olynyk
Kaminsky
FTW

Hell, maybe even Meyers Leonard. It would be even more appropriate of a name to be MeyersTheJazzKiller rather than Melo.
 
infection said:
Wood
Baynes
Bjelica
Olynyk
Kaminsky
FTW

Hell, maybe even Meyers Leonard. It would be even more appropriate of a name to be MeyersTheJazzKiller rather than Melo.
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I really hate the pleading face on Meyers Leonard. It’s right up there with Grayson Allen’s.
 
The same thing happened last season with Rubio. He missed 6 games in January during a really soft part of the schedule where 5 of the 6 teams we played were below .500 and we went 6-0 without him.
 
NAOS said:
I really hate the pleading face on Meyers Leonard. It’s right up there with Grayson Allen’s.
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Didn't realize he was making $11M.



However, Miami is hard capped and HH said something about them wanting to sign a two way guy to a regular contract but can't. Apparently Bradley and Davis works in the trade machine. That would save them like $5M, plus luxury tax payments. Wonder if they'd give us some kind of second rounder for that. You could then parlay that asset for Baynes or someone else and retain Leonard as your third big. Then it allows you to get off of owing Davis and Bradley for next year.
 
infection said:
Didn't realize he was making $11M.



However, Miami is hard capped and HH said something about them wanting to sign a two way guy to a regular contract but can't. Apparently Bradley and Davis works in the trade machine. That would save them like $5M, plus luxury tax payments. Wonder if they'd give us some kind of second rounder for that. You could then parlay that asset for Baynes or someone else and retain Leonard as your third big. Then it allows you to get off of owing Davis and Bradley for next year.
Click to expand...

Let's not be greedy. If all the Jazz have to do to make that happen is save them eight figures and not send any assets, that is a major win.
 
infection said:
Didn't realize he was making $11M.



However, Miami is hard capped and HH said something about them wanting to sign a two way guy to a regular contract but can't. Apparently Bradley and Davis works in the trade machine. That would save them like $5M, plus luxury tax payments. Wonder if they'd give us some kind of second rounder for that. You could then parlay that asset for Baynes or someone else and retain Leonard as your third big. Then it allows you to get off of owing Davis and Bradley for next year.
Click to expand...

Any scenario that involves Baynes for less than an overpay = Yes, capital Y.
 
To be clear on my position regarding Conley:

I don't know if we're better without him or not, I just know we don't need him. He's certainly a legitimate rotation player but the Jazz could do a whole lot better with that roster slot, 2.5 first rounders/several years of not having a 1st to trade, and $32 million. If Mike can find a way to regain his form without trampling on what the Jazz do then the Jazz will be great. Unfortunately, I think those two things are somewhat mutually exclusive and in order for it to not, Conley needs to change his game in some pretty fundamental ways.
 
Jingled said:
The same thing happened last season with Rubio. He missed 6 games in January during a really soft part of the schedule where 5 of the 6 teams we played were below .500 and we went 6-0 without him.
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We were also really good in the games Rubio missed the year before last. Not sure the record of the teams we played during those games though.

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NUMBERICA said:
Let's not be greedy. If all the Jazz have to do to make that happen is save them eight figures and not send any assets, that is a major win.
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Meyers Leonard would be viewed as fairly worthless. We're giving them a "prospect" in Bradley that has a higher ceiling than Leonard. Leonard still an okay rebounder but not nearly as good as Davis and Bradley, so it does leave us a little thin up front, unless we rectified that by signing a defensive option like Udoh, Noah, or Bogut. Looking at Meyers' lateral movement it's slow AF. But still a smidge faster than Bradley.
 
NUMBERICA said:
To be clear on my position regarding Conley:

I don't know if we're better without him or not, I just know we don't need him. He's certainly a legitimate rotation player but the Jazz could do a whole lot better with that roster slot, 2.5 first rounders/several years of not having a 1st to trade, and $32 million. If Mike can find a way to regain his form without trampling on what the Jazz do then the Jazz will be great. Unfortunately, I think those two things are somewhat mutually exclusive and in order for it to not, Conley needs to change his game in some pretty fundamental ways.
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This.
Also, Conley was straight up the reason we lost multiple games this season regardless of the opponents record. He had some real stinkers this year and you can't simply gloss those performances over by saying the schedule was harder at that point.

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Mitchell and Joe have been better with Conley out. Conley doesn’t fit the personal of this roster. I prefer the ball to be in the hands of Joe and Mitchell.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Mitchell and Joe have been better with Conley out. Conley doesn’t fit the personal of this roster. I prefer the ball to be in the hands of Joe and Mitchell.
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Is that a function of Conley or is that a function of Joe coming off the bench? Because my bet is that 80% of that variance is explained by the latter, and maybe 10-15% the former. Yes, Joe's usage will go down, but we haven't seen Joe and Mike starting together.
 
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