Where this Mess Started

[homeytennis]

The seeds of the explosion started way last season. It started with the trade of Maynor and Brewer. DWill was sitting their really mad. The Brewer trade allowed Wes to flourish. Then in the off season Booz, Wes and Korver leave and then the trade for Big Al and the signing of Bell, Watson and Elson. Out of this Deron is mad and Sloan sees that management and ownership are diluting the team. If the off season Sloan lobbied to resign Wes, Boozer and Korver and even reacquire Brewer. Too costly said management. There is your mess.

 

[vslice02]

Respectably disagree. IMO it started when Larry Miller passed away. Leadership starts at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation.

NBA was always a players' league, just not to this extent leaguewide and not with the Jazz franchise. First, you have the LeBron Decision, then you have Melo holding that Denver franchise hostage, constant CP3 speculation, then some Deron speculation, now Dwight Howard speculation - again still TWO 'FREAKIN YEARS down the road for most of those guys. Then you have LeBron's old team, the Cavs - suffering through a historical losing streak.
Those scenarios have affected how new ownership and management looks at things - and the Jazz have changed their philosophy.

The Jazz have lost players before, and have gone offseasons w/out making big aquisitions. Malone would get mad, but he would keep playing and Sloan put his head down and keep coaching, Deron would get ticked off, but keep playing. Deron played his tail off during the 15-5 start - so much that I was worried he'd be burnt out by the playoffs. I don't think the offseason losses played that critical a role - because competitors like Sloan and Deron think they can win with almost anyone.

I don't think you can blame this on 1 single event or 1 single person. I will say, it all starts with the man at the top - and that's the person I would blame the most.

 

[m3at]

The seeds of the explosion started way last season. It started with the trade of Maynor and Brewer. DWill was sitting their really mad. The Brewer trade allowed Wes to flourish. Then in the off season Booz, Wes and Korver leave and then the trade for Big Al and the signing of Bell, Watson and Elson. Out of this Deron is mad and Sloan sees that management and ownership are diluting the team. If the off season Sloan lobbied to resign Wes, Boozer and Korver and even reacquire Brewer. Too costly said management. There is your mess.

WOW, brand new information!!!!

But no, I agree. The biggest problem is AK's contract. Imagine what we could have were we not paying AK 17mil. We could have kept Wes, Korver, Brew and Maynor. Or we could have kept Booz, had he wanted to stay.

 

[homeytennis]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think there's a fine line between a San Antonio and a Utah or Portland right now. Say the Jazz this year have Brew, Maynor, Wes, Booz , Korver and Kofus. Perhaps the draft pick is Ed Davis or someone else and there are more bullets in the gun. DWill and Sloan aren't at each others throat and the good ship Jazz keeps sailing along. Man what if this group was having a year like San Antonio? Think DWill would be at Jerry's throat? I doubt it. You're right this lies with Greggy boy for what it's worth.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Respectably disagree. IMO it started when Larry Miller passed away. Leadership starts at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation.

NBA was always a players' league, just not to this extent leaguewide and not with the Jazz franchise. First, you have the LeBron Decision, then you have Melo holding that Denver franchise hostage, constant CP3 speculation, then some Deron speculation, now Dwight Howard speculation - again still TWO 'FREAKIN YEARS down the road for most of those guys. Then you have LeBron's old team, the Cavs - suffering through a historical losing streak.
Those scenarios have affected how new ownership and management looks at things - and the Jazz have changed their philosophy.

The Jazz have lost players before, and have gone offseasons w/out making big aquisitions. Malone would get mad, but he would keep playing and Sloan put his head down and keep coaching, Deron would get ticked off, but keep playing. Deron played his tail off during the 15-5 start - so much that I was worried he'd be burnt out by the playoffs. I don't think the offseason losses played that critical a role - because competitors like Sloan and Deron think they can win with almost anyone.

I don't think you can blame this on 1 single event or 1 single person. I will say, it all starts with the man at the top - and that's the person I would blame the most.

This is the conclusion that I started drawing last night as I couldn't sleep. Well put. Larry was special, him and Jerry were the glue that kept the franchise what it was. Now? Well, we'll find out.

 

[Shaggy]

Nah, it all started when Sloan didn't start Dwill in his first season. Everyone has heard DWill's famous quote "ahh I hate that Mother ****er". Everyone assumed he was talking about a reporter, but if you look at the video Sloan walked by at that very moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related

 

[homeytennis]

That's a long time to carry a grudge. If true DWill needs professional help.

 

[carolinajazz]

....look, the Jazz are a mess and so is the whole NBA! Anytime you are paying players hundreds of thousands of dollars a game....and that team loses 26 games in a row you have a bad product and a mess! Anytime you have 3 guys in your starting lineup that average over $200,000 dollars per GAME.....like the Wizards do.....and they lose 25 games in a row on the road....you have a bad product and a big time mess! The owners are going to lockout these clowns in an attempt to gain control of the players and.......themselves! It won't work....but it will be interesting to see!

 

[Stifle Tower]

Respectably disagree. IMO it started when Larry Miller passed away. Leadership starts at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation.


The Jazz have lost players before, and have gone offseasons w/out making big aquisitions. Malone would get mad, but he would keep playing and Sloan put his head down and keep coaching, Deron would get ticked off, but keep playing. Deron played his tail off during the 15-5 start - so much that I was worried he'd be burnt out by the playoffs. I don't think the offseason losses played that critical a role - because competitors like Sloan and Deron think they can win with almost anyone.

I don't think you can blame this on 1 single event or 1 single person. I will say, it all starts with the man at the top - and that's the person I would blame the most.

I agree with the first part, but I also think Deron is a HUGE part of the problem.

When the Jazz had nobody of note and were expected to challenge for the worst record ever, they won 40 games because everyone bought into Sloan's system. They played as a team.

The early start this season was a mirage. They were damn lucky to come back and win all those games. Everything went right for them - as opposed to the opening two games when the team got blown out. First bit of adversity comes along, Deron starts whining and the team folds.

The second half last night was a microcosm of the season and mentality of the team. There were few plays being run and terrible help defense. The players on this Jazz squad, including Deron are SELFISH idiots. There is no Jazz TEAM. The players just want to jack up wild shots and get "THEIRS."

I'd look at trading everyone. The only guy that I think embodies what the Jazz USED to be is Millsap. Hayward could also become a solid contributor. Both of those gusy may be better suited to come off the bench, though.

As for the rest, Deron is a selfish little baby. He's a whiner, not a leader. CJ was, is and always will be, a chucker. Jefferson is a one-dimensional player who just doesn't seem to have enough BB IQ to operate in a complex offense (and that's not a racist comment - Fes is the same way). Raja shouldn't even be in the league anymore; he's got nothing left in the tank. And AK is brittle and inconsistent.

 

[m3at]

I agree with the first part, but I also think Deron is a HUGE part of the problem.

When the Jazz had nobody of note and were expected to challenge for the worst record ever, they won 40 games because everyone bought into Sloan's system. They played as a team.

The early start this season was a mirage. They were damn lucky to come back and win all those games. Everything went right for them - as opposed to the opening two games when the team got blown out. First bit of adversity comes along, Deron starts whining and the team folds.

The second half last night was a microcosm of the season and mentality of the team. There were few plays being run and terrible help defense. The players on this Jazz squad, including Deron are SELFISH idiots. There is no Jazz TEAM. The players just want to jack up wild shots and get "THEIRS."

I'd look at trading everyone. The only guy that I think embodies what the Jazz USED to be is Millsap. Hayward could also become a solid contributor. Both of those gusy may be better suited to come off the bench, though.

As for the rest, Deron is a selfish little baby. He's a whiner, not a leader. CJ was, is and always will be, a chucker. Jefferson is a one-dimensional player who just doesn't seem to have enough BB IQ to operate in a complex offense (and that's not a racist comment - Fes is the same way). Raja shouldn't even be in the league anymore; he's got nothing left in the tank. And AK is brittle and inconsistent.

Ruling with an iron fist can only last so long before there is a revolt. Sloan had his way of doing things and although he has been Jazz basketball for 23 years, I just can't see them doing more than what they have done for 20 out of the 23 years. I'm tired of the one and done team. We might not even make the play-offs for a while, but I'm willing to accept that and anything else we have to go through in order to see this team get over the hump of being consistently mediocre. Good or bad, whether we like it or not, we have change now, hopefully DWill can drop that attitude sooner rather than later.

 

[mellow]

When did it start: " Who is Jerry Sloan?" Deron Williams in his rookie year.

Of course it could have been Jerry's fault that Deron got worked by Westbrook, then Rose, just like it was Ty's fault that Deron got beat time after time by Nash last night.

A certain player complains about tape, Ty ought to cue up the last three games and show the whole team how a certain pg can't defend the pick and roll.

 

[infection]

It's now only in hindsight that we know the franchise died the day Larry did.