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This season will vindicate Ty Corbin

Just had to bump this back up. QS leading the Jazz to vast improvement. Tyrone Corbin recognized as a mistake in Sacramento.

Jazz record at this point last season: 19 and 36. Team purposefully built for failure.

Jazz record today: 21 and 34. Better team plus huge internal improvement from Favors, Hayward, and Gobert. No John Lucas III starting games.


Results speak for themselves. This team would have more wins with Corbin. Snyder is riding the development coattails of Corbin like Bush Jr. road Clinton's.

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I wonder if Corbin would have been fired if Hayward had not tanked last year and he wasn't forced by management to give Kanter so many undeserving minutes. Too bad for him that management caved in to fans and forced Corbin to go against the obvious.
 
I've missed Franklin. Can't reason with him. Can't change his mind. Jazz are better off with Snyder moving forward, and probably should have never brought Corbin back for 2013 tbh. I'd have not picked up his 3rd year option back in 2012 and probably gone hard after Budenholzer. Happy with Quin though. Think he's got this team playing hard and developing the right way finally.
 
Jazz are better under Snyder but Franklin does keep the Corbin hate to more respectable levels. And he provides a badly need voice of dissent.
 
I wonder how Franklin feels now? Unbelievable the way the Jazz are playing now compared to last year. In fact, I don't remember such passion since the heyday of Jerry. He should apologize to the board for how he constantly badgered everyone with his obnoxious love affair with Corbin, who probably, at least in my opinion, ruined Kanter (though he is still young enough to recover).

It would be nice if Franklin at least made one last comment on this thread for closure. But I know he probably will make the same lame excuses that he did in the past. Well, maybe Ty is a nice guy and he does wear nice ties, but he is not a good head coach. I'm sure he is good at other things -- he was a good enough player to last more than a decade in the NBA, which is more than most of us are able to do. So, it's not like the guy is inept. He just isn't a good head coach.

You know I'm one of the biggest critics of Ty and franklin and I argued across many threads. However, I think there are several points we need to keep in mind.

1. Gobert. He looked lost when he played last year. He got 10 mins/per in 45 games. I don't really think he deserved much more. He's made a HUGE leap forward.
2. Hayward. Just no comparison last year to this one. He's stronger, shooting much better. He didn't have the step-back nor the ability to finish at the rim last season.
3. Favors. Has also made some definite strides to become a true PF. Has improved on the P&R and diving to the basket.
4. Other personnel: They had ZERO PG's until Trey recovered from his injury. Utah had Alec and Enes (after he was benched for Marvin Williams) off the bench, but not much else. The roster was designed to lose.
5. The "tank": after the all-star break, everyone, including the media, was talking about tanking, getting a top draft pick, etc. It was evident just about everyone BUT Trey quit. I'm not sure how you reverse that death spiral. Lame-duck coach, shallow roster by Lindsey - FO certainly gave the team the impression that losing was not only o.k., it was expected and encouraged.

Not saying Corbin was a good head coach; he wasn't. I think Ty had really been hurt by only having one job for numerous years. He knows the Sloan way. Saw that it had been very successful as as a player and then an assistant coach and tried to keep things pretty much the same. But with the personnel he had, I think the team was only capable of reaching 30-35 wins at MOST. Factor in the injury to Trey, Favors missing quite a few games AND his key player having a monster slump - he would have been lucky to reach 28-30.

That said, there's no denying the team has really established a great identity under Quin. But don't forget they were not much better defensively at the first part of this year than last. The difference has really coincided with the rapid rise of Gobert and Dante's insertion into the starting line-up. And Lindsey has provided Snyder with a much better and deeper roster.
 
Jazz are better under Snyder but Franklin does keep the Corbin hate to more respectable levels. And he provides a badly need voice of dissent.

Don't hate Corbin and never did. Just thought he was a terrible head coach who was in way over his head. I've seen nothing from the Jazz under Snyder to dissuade that opinion. He's a nice guy, and a very good assistant coach, but it was pretty clear (to some of us) that he was part of the problem instead of the solution. I'm glad the Jazz went in another direction AND that the team seems to be responding to Quin Snyder's methods and system.
 
I've missed Franklin. Can't reason with him. Can't change his mind. Jazz are better off with Snyder moving forward, and probably should have never brought Corbin back for 2013 tbh. I'd have not picked up his 3rd year option back in 2012 and probably gone hard after Budenholzer. Happy with Quin though. Think he's got this team playing hard and developing the right way finally.

I reason with myself. Why reason with those who don't?
 
I reason with myself. Why reason with those who don't?

Good answer. Some of the arguments on here are plain stupid (current Kanter vs. Gobert discord as a perfect example - news flash! they're both good, young players). Even if I disagree with your assessment of Corbin, at least I can see why you believe what you do.
 
I wish the best for Corbin...sadly though, I don't think he'll ever be a head coach again at the NBA level. He had a chance to redeem himself in Sacramento, but couldn't even make it to the end of the season. Maybe he can make it a go in the college ranks or high school level?
 
Jazz record at this point last season: 19 and 36. Team purposefully built for failure.

Jazz record today: 21 and 34. Better team plus huge internal improvement from Favors, Hayward, and Gobert. No John Lucas III starting games.


Results speak for themselves. This team would have more wins with Corbin. Snyder is riding the development coattails of Corbin like Bush Jr. road Clinton's.

]

There is internal improvement but this team is not built to win this year. Also if we had great internal development shouldnt we give some credit for that to the coaching staff? We cut the veterans that this team relied on to go with youth. This team has no bench just random dleaguers. Yes JLIII sucked but dont tell me we have not had crappy players this year. We are the revolving 10 day contract bench team. Plus this team did not care about winning at first, just instilling Snyders system. Now that they are running his system and buying in we are hugely improved and winning at a good clip. Last year we had a rough sputter to the end, do you think we will have a rough crappy sputter to the end this year?
 
Jazz are better under Snyder but Franklin does keep the Corbin hate to more respectable levels. And he provides a badly need voice of dissent.
I'd argue he fuels the hate. Corbin would be a mostly forgotten thing on Jazzfanz if not for Franklin's incessant trolling the topic.
 
Last year team stats:
SRS: -6.26 (28th of 30)
Off Rtg: 103.5 (25th of 30)
Def Rtg: 111.3 (29th of 30)

This year team stats:
SRS: -0.57 (17th of 30)
Off Rtg: 105.8 (15th of 30)
Def Rtg: 107.8 (24th of 30) (and this has been much better since mid-december)

The win/loss column doesn't represent the improvements made by this team. We are much better than our 21-34 record would suggest.
 
I'd argue he fuels the hate. Corbin would be a mostly forgotten thing on Jazzfanz if not for Franklin's incessant trolling the topic.

I agree with this. I liked Corbin. I think he was a good guy and really helped players develop. He just wasnt quite cut to be a head coach yet, or ever. Trolls make you disagree to the point that you are way further over than you want to be on an issue.
 
Ty in "action" in Sactown. this kind of thing should not happen at the high school level and demonstrate that you are not cut out to get paid millions to strategize basketball games:

"The Kings trailed by one point with 51 seconds left. Dallas ran down the clock until Dirk Nowitzki missed a one-legged fader. But the loose ball was tapped deep into the backcourt, where Chandler Parsons tracked it down. Twenty-five seconds left, Dallas by one. Sacramento has a foul to give, and the Kings’ Ray McCallum does so with 19 seconds left. There’s a four-second differential between the shot clock and game clock, and Sacramento has plenty of timeouts.

Corbin has two options. He can foul immediately on the inbounds to put a Mav on the line with 16-18 seconds left and no worse than a three-point deficit, or he can let the shot clock run down, pray that the Mavericks miss and the Kings get the rebound and call a quick timeout, giving Sacramento a final chance to win.

Instead, Corbin chose Door No. 3: He let 10 seconds run off the clock before telling McCallum to foul Ellis.

Ellis hit both, and Rick Carlisle took the opportunity to intentionally foul Darren Collison given how little time was left. The Mavericks won by four and the Kings never even got a chance to tie or go ahead in that final minute.

Now if Corbin had explained that there was a miscommunication, that he intended to let the Mavericks shoot but saw something he didn’t like, that he wanted his team to try to trap or whatever, you could almost understand.

Instead, this was Corbin’s rationale.

Kings coach Ty Corbin said when he saw Dallas take their time on final play, then decided to foul Monta Ellis

— Sean Cunningham (@News10Sean) January 14, 2015

So Corbin thought a veteran team coached by Rick Carlisle might rush up a shot with a 4-second shot clock differential and a one-point lead.

… what?

This is the type of thing that drove Jazz faithful batty as Corbin coached that team and it has swaths of Sacramento again bemoaning the firing of Michael Malone. The mistake was bad enough in real time. Hearing Corbin’s explanation actually made it worse. That’s impressive.

Judging NBA coaches is extremely difficult and grading them out is one of the mysterious arts of NBA management. But when head coaches botch incredibly simple situations like this, it all becomes a little easier. There’s a basic threshold of strategic knowledge all NBA head coaches should be able to meet, and on Tuesday Corbin fell short. That matters."

LOL .. wow.
 
Ty in "action" in Sactown. this kind of thing should not happen at the high school level and demonstrate that you are not cut out to get paid millions to strategize basketball games:

"The Kings trailed by one point with 51 seconds left. Dallas ran down the clock until Dirk Nowitzki missed a one-legged fader. But the loose ball was tapped deep into the backcourt, where Chandler Parsons tracked it down. Twenty-five seconds left, Dallas by one. Sacramento has a foul to give, and the Kings’ Ray McCallum does so with 19 seconds left. There’s a four-second differential between the shot clock and game clock, and Sacramento has plenty of timeouts.

Corbin has two options. He can foul immediately on the inbounds to put a Mav on the line with 16-18 seconds left and no worse than a three-point deficit, or he can let the shot clock run down, pray that the Mavericks miss and the Kings get the rebound and call a quick timeout, giving Sacramento a final chance to win.

Instead, Corbin chose Door No. 3: He let 10 seconds run off the clock before telling McCallum to foul Ellis.

Ellis hit both, and Rick Carlisle took the opportunity to intentionally foul Darren Collison given how little time was left. The Mavericks won by four and the Kings never even got a chance to tie or go ahead in that final minute.

Now if Corbin had explained that there was a miscommunication, that he intended to let the Mavericks shoot but saw something he didn’t like, that he wanted his team to try to trap or whatever, you could almost understand.

Instead, this was Corbin’s rationale.

Kings coach Ty Corbin said when he saw Dallas take their time on final play, then decided to foul Monta Ellis

— Sean Cunningham (@News10Sean) January 14, 2015

So Corbin thought a veteran team coached by Rick Carlisle might rush up a shot with a 4-second shot clock differential and a one-point lead.

… what?

This is the type of thing that drove Jazz faithful batty as Corbin coached that team and it has swaths of Sacramento again bemoaning the firing of Michael Malone. The mistake was bad enough in real time. Hearing Corbin’s explanation actually made it worse. That’s impressive.

Judging NBA coaches is extremely difficult and grading them out is one of the mysterious arts of NBA management. But when head coaches botch incredibly simple situations like this, it all becomes a little easier. There’s a basic threshold of strategic knowledge all NBA head coaches should be able to meet, and on Tuesday Corbin fell short. That matters."


That narrative was purposefully misleading. The ball was in Dirk's hands and Corbin chose to send someone other than a clutch 90% free throw shooter to the line. It was brilliant end of game, in the moment coaching.


I'd argue he fuels the hate. Corbin would be a mostly forgotten thing on Jazzfanz if not for Franklin's incessant trolling the topic.

You are too slow to realize I'm not the one who keeps bumping this?
 
That narrative was purposefully misleading. The ball was in Dirk's hands and Corbin chose to send someone other than a clutch 90% free throw shooter to the line. It was brilliant end of game, in the moment coaching.




You are too slow to realize I'm not the one who keeps bumping this?
Why would you bump a thread that shows how completely wrong you were? That is not what I was talking about with that post. The very creation of this thread is an example of what I was talking about.
 
I wonder if Corbin would have been fired if Hayward had not tanked last year and he wasn't forced by management to give Kanter so many undeserving minutes. Too bad for him that management caved in to fans and forced Corbin to go against the obvious.

Zero leadership ability. No clue what to do. Lack of respect and trust from players. Massive levels of incompetence. This is the essence of Tyrone Corbin.

Can you really not just admit you were wrong about him and move on?
 
Gregbroncs: I'd argue he fuels the hate. Corbin would be a mostly forgotten thing on Jazzfanz if not for Franklin's incessant trolling the topic.

I agree with this. I liked Corbin. I think he was a good guy and really helped players develop. He just wasnt quite cut to be a head coach yet, or ever. Trolls make you disagree to the point that you are way further over than you want to be on an issue.

Exactly, he just wouldn't stop. Corbin would do something dumb, as usual, and Franklin would jump to his defense. It got to be so annoying, especially because it was so obvious that not only was Corbin bad and most of Jazzfanz wanted to see him go, but you could tell the players felt the same way. And now Franklin points to the similar record. I can't remember when the Jazz have played with so much energy and passion. The Jazz under Corbin were never even close to this. If Franklin admitted he was wrong, I might have some respect for him, but I guess he's too small of a person to do that.
 
That said, there's no denying the team has really established a great identity under Quin. But don't forget they were not much better defensively at the first part of this year than last. The difference has really coincided with the rapid rise of Gobert and Dante's insertion into the starting line-up. And Lindsey has provided Snyder with a much better and deeper roster.


Has it occurred to you that the improvement of Hayward and Favors can be attributed to better coaching, at least in part? Hayward has suggested as much. Last year's roster had major issues, but come on. We're starting Joe Bagadonuts Ingles and giving a D-league call-up heavy minutes.

Bottom line is Corbin had a tough job, but he wasn't cut out for it anyway.



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