Could Kanter and Gobert have worked?
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Maneesh
Well-Known Member
I dont think you are a Jazz man in reality anyways. Why do you like it here? I see you post on the Thunder boards all the time I know you!
Why do people here not understand that the decision to trade Kanter has nothing to do with whether he's a good player or not? The Jazz have hitched their cart to Favors and Gobert. If you want to argue about whether that was the right or wrong decision, feel free to make your points and back it up with data. But the bottom line is that there is no room for another player making max or close-to-max money in the backcourt.
Once the front office determined that Kanter was likely to command more than they were willing to pay him, the only smart move is to trade him for something. The trade was never about getting fair value for the player. It was about getting SOME value rather than waiting out the season and then letting him walk when the big offers came in.
If anything, it's a testament to the fact that he IS a good player and was likely to command more than we were willing to pay.
As a fan, I would have been pretty unhappy if they had let him go for nothing. Or worse, agree to pay him the big contract he wants when he is not going to be the starter on this team.
Also, it is not a foregone solution that OKC is going to be willing to pay him the contract he wants either. Why would they or any other team trade full value on a player that could be gone at the end of the year?
Anyway, it's fair game to argue or disagree with the decision to put Favors/Gobert ahead of Kanter. This will likely be debated for years to come. But you can't really argue with the decision to trade him once that decision had been made. They really got all they were ever going to get in that situation.
Once the front office determined that Kanter was likely to command more than they were willing to pay him, the only smart move is to trade him for something. The trade was never about getting fair value for the player. It was about getting SOME value rather than waiting out the season and then letting him walk when the big offers came in.
If anything, it's a testament to the fact that he IS a good player and was likely to command more than we were willing to pay.
As a fan, I would have been pretty unhappy if they had let him go for nothing. Or worse, agree to pay him the big contract he wants when he is not going to be the starter on this team.
Also, it is not a foregone solution that OKC is going to be willing to pay him the contract he wants either. Why would they or any other team trade full value on a player that could be gone at the end of the year?
Anyway, it's fair game to argue or disagree with the decision to put Favors/Gobert ahead of Kanter. This will likely be debated for years to come. But you can't really argue with the decision to trade him once that decision had been made. They really got all they were ever going to get in that situation.
fishonjazz
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What happens when you have one of those Ben Affleck chin butts?
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
How many rebounds did Noah have that game?
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
No doubt Kanter is putting up some great numbers right now, but there is little reason to believe it's sustainable. In fact, as CAKAR kindly pointed out waaaay back at the beginning of this thread, he got pouty and stopped playing hard for the Jazz because he was unhappy with his role here, which-- if true-- speaks volumes about his character. What happens when Durant and Ibaka are back, and Kanter is suddenly not getting as many touches? Because that's why he is doing so well right now. Will he have the professionalism and maturity to handle being the 4th or 5th option on offense? To me, this isn't even a conversation worth having right now-- come back to me after he's been with the team for a year or more, has a more established role in the system, and then there might be something to discuss. I will gladly eat crow if he's still averaging 20+ and 10+.
As for the idea that the Jazz would have been better off keeping Kanter over Favors, it's a moot point. The Jazz as an organization committed to building a franchise identity around defensive-mindedness, and Kanter simply doesn't fit into that model. It can't be argued-- for all of his prowess with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands, for all his talent as an offensive rebounder, he is not a defensive-minded player. As a fan I am grateful to the Jazz for choosing what most of us consider to be an exciting path, and then making hard decisions that show a commitment to it. What is annoying is how determined so many of you butt-hurt Kanter fans are to stick around this forum, resurrecting the topic of how great Kanter is and how badly he was mishandled. Go away, people. Just go away.
As for the idea that the Jazz would have been better off keeping Kanter over Favors, it's a moot point. The Jazz as an organization committed to building a franchise identity around defensive-mindedness, and Kanter simply doesn't fit into that model. It can't be argued-- for all of his prowess with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands, for all his talent as an offensive rebounder, he is not a defensive-minded player. As a fan I am grateful to the Jazz for choosing what most of us consider to be an exciting path, and then making hard decisions that show a commitment to it. What is annoying is how determined so many of you butt-hurt Kanter fans are to stick around this forum, resurrecting the topic of how great Kanter is and how badly he was mishandled. Go away, people. Just go away.
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
Sorry-- a little late to the party, but one more point: Corbin vs. Quin. We unfortunately can't see what Quin might have done to better develop Kanter his rookie season, but nobody can deny that this man is a player development coach, through and through. Letting Exum take his lumps this season has been painful to watch, but I think I speak for all of us when I say I'm optimistic (or at least hopeful) it will pay big dividends by year three. I'm inclined to believe he would've done something similar with Kanter, if he'd been the coach his rookie year and there had been less of a logjam at PF/C.
I never visited the Thunder board and I'm not registered there so stop inventing things moron!
I agree with your point.
Corbin killed Kanter confidence several times benching him at every mistake. By the way most of the Jazzfanz posters were agree with the attitude Corbin showed to him. I guess they are the same posters that now support Snyder that is giving unlimited trust to Exum...
Anyway Kanter was the only young player that had to deserve his minutes in the last seasons.
enchilada_style
Well-Known Member
Could Dominique Wilkins and Karl Malone have worked?
Favors is a way better player than Kanter to begin with, so why are we having this argument?
Officer Olden bringing the long arm of the law to his posts. Respect.
The way Corbin humiliated Kanter was ridiculous. I'm kind of surprised the Turkish mafia didn't put a contract out on Corbin.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Can't agree with this, though. The cap is about to take a historical jump, and if Kanter had bought in and wanted to be here, Utah could have afforded to keep him. IMO, the FO was trying to ride it out and get him signed to a multi-year deal, at which point his trade value would have increased significantly to what we got for him. I think the main reason he got traded was because he was creating chemistry issues, and it had reached the point that those issues were bad enough that it wasn't worth souring the rest of the team. Between that and the fact that Enes taking the QO in the offseason was looking more and more likely, the odds of salvaging trade value just weren't in our favor.
Just because we could have technically signed him to a max deal due to the jump in the salary cap does not mean it is a wise fiscal decision. The salary cap jump is a short term phenomena. All salaries will increase for all players in short course and I stand by the fact that it would be very unwise to load up that many big salaries in the backcourt.
The chemistry issues definitely facilitated the trade happening when it did, but I believe that the impending salary that Kanter is likely to get in the offseason would have ultimately led to him leaving the team since they decided that Favors/Gobert was the better frontcourt going forward.
framer
Well-Known Member
Have people learned nothing from when we maxed Kirilenko? There is always a risk in paying players a lot more than they are worth. It often costs you opportunities down the road.
Farmer.Tan
Well-Known Member
sure they could have...if Kanter had decided to not be a whiny little bitch.
I disagree. Kanter was on his way out one way or the other. DL had seen enough of Favors/Gobert to know they were the frontcourt of the future. It would be foolhardy to spend that much on a bench player that would have been seeing an increasingly diminished role as Gobert progressed.
Not only would it have been stupid to spend that much on a bench player, Kanter would have wanted nothing to do with it. Why spend that kind of money on a player that is going to be disgruntled in that role.
Both sides win in my opinion.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the offers roll in for Kanter in the offseason. Will OKC match? His great play right now is heavily influenced by the fact that KD and Ibaka are out for the season. With KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka back, what role does Kanter have on that team? Are they still going to want him as a starter at that point? Does Kanter revert to being what he hated being with the Jazz?
I haven't followed Kanter much since his move but I saw a highlight last week of him running down the court and I swear it must have been a different person. He was actually leaning forward while he ran and looked like he actually gave a **** about getting to the other end.