Dear Fat People

[Deleted member 848]

lol.. good one.

Was not in my top10 doe

gotta hear some of dem.

I hate what the Oilers have become, side note. No team in a major American sport needs an FO re-haul as desperately. Toxic franchise.

 

[TroutBum]

I could honestly be talked into some sort of 'unhealthy food' tax law. A logistical nightmare to get that tax network in shape, probably. Still, there's so much garbage out there.

I would say that it's a bit of an oversimplification to tether fatness to industrial development. Different industrialized nations deal with obesity to varying extents, because it is so nuanced. Unfortunately, the income disparity, the segregational nature of North American metropolitan neighbourhoods, and the lack of a social welfare net to encourage the healthy lifestyles of the lower classes will continue to push Americans towards obesity (among many other factors).

Disagree with both of these, but especially the first one. I also don't want to explain why, so I'll just leave it at that.

The Oilers left Houston years ago, man. You need to catch up.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Disagree with both of these, but especially the first one. I also don't want to explain why, so I'll just leave it at that.

The Oilers left Houston years ago, man. You need to catch up.

the first I can understand-- the second is just a reflection of you growing up in a culture that constantly hammers home the importance of individualism.

 

[Siro]

I would say that it's a bit of an oversimplification to tether fatness to industrial development. Different industrialized nations deal with obesity to varying extents, because it is so nuanced. Unfortunately, the income disparity, the segregational nature of North American metropolitan neighbourhoods, and the lack of a social welfare net to encourage the healthy lifestyles of the lower classes will continue to push Americans towards obesity (among many other factors).

I hate how you have the tendency to muddle up simple truths with unnecessary complexity. What I said was not an "oversimplification". It is a general trend. Obesity is mainly a problem of modern life, which is a consequence of development. Do you disagree with this? The differences of obesity levels between nations are cultural, and thus can be addressed with cultural solutions. Do you disagree with anything specific? An information dump that doesn't quite respond to my statement makes meaningful conversation really difficult.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I hate how you have the tendency to muddle up simple truths with unnecessary complexity. What I said was not an "oversimplification". It is a general trend. Obesity is mainly a problem of modern life, which is a consequence of development. Do you disagree with this? The differences of obesity levels between nations are cultural, and thus can be addressed with cultural solutions. Do you disagree with anything specific? An information dump that doesn't quite respond to my statement makes meaningful conversation really difficult.

This is nothing like my early slap-downs of Daladowns, but I like it.

 

[Siro]

I also don't see how public campaigns like anti-tobacco make much of a long run difference. Sure it saves lives immediately but knowledge is knowledge and it has a quaint way of getting out. Who's to say 20-30 years we wouldn't make the exact same change based on knowledge and loving parents trying to teach their children the best? Good thing QSH the parent hater isn't here to answer that one...

Who's to say that we would make the same change? Who's to say that we'd make a worse change? How about all of those lives that could have been saved with just a bit of gentle shaming 30 years earlier? More importantly, what value does the hypothesis "maybe things will work themselves out eventually" have when the competing method has already proven that it can work things out?

 

[Deleted member 848]

I hate how you have the tendency to muddle up simple truths with unnecessary complexity. What I said was not an "oversimplification". It is a general trend. Obesity is mainly a problem of modern life, which is a consequence of development. Do you disagree with this? The differences of obesity levels between nations are cultural, and thus can be addressed with cultural solutions. Do you disagree with anything specific? An information dump that doesn't quite respond to my statement makes meaningful conversation really difficult.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to muddle up conversation-- of course it's probably one of (if not the) driving factors of obesity rates; however, if it was the only one, we have pretty consistent rates of obesity across all nations with similar levels of economic development. Interesting, we don't see that, which begs further questioning. Obesity is a huge, huge problem-- it has bankrupting potential for the health care systems of numerous governments.

I would say the differences between nations are social, which to me encompasses culture, government, and their society in general. I think where I disagree with you is that we can implement changes in society, in government that will impact obesity rates moreso than any cultural methods I can think of (like, approaching obesity like we approached tobacco). I think that shaming obesity is a terrible solution.

 

[Dr. Jones]

@siro - Just wondering if that ^^ was another irrelevant information dump? Just wondering if Trout may be texting me a pic of it.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Who's to say that we would make the same change? Who's to say that we'd make a worse change? How about all of those lives that could have been saved with just a bit of gentle shaming 30 years earlier? More importantly, what value does the hypothesis "maybe things will work themselves out eventually" have when the competing method has already proven that it can work things out?

What, shaming on obesity? Do you not feel like our society has already constructed (especially for women) as obesity being an unfavourable trait?

The biggest difference between shaming something like tobacco, and shaming something as broad as obesity, is that tobacco can be avoidable for a significant portion of the population.

If you tell an inner-city family to stop being obese-- yet they have no access to grocery stores, no access to gyms, and no access to competent athletics programs for their children, then the shaming won't get you anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 848]

This is nothing like my early slap-downs of Daladowns, but I like it.

nah, it seems to be going similarly. Sir throws the hooks, Dala returns with the haymakers.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Canada is weird. In our country, grocery stores have a decent proximity to inner-cities.

 

[Dr. Jones]

nah, it seems to be going similarly. Sir throws the hooks, Dala returns with the haymakers.

But you call us both 'sir.'

 

[Siro]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to muddle up conversation-- of course it's probably one of (if not the) driving factors of obesity rates; however, if it was the only one, we' have pretty consistent rates of obesity across all nations with similar levels of economic development. Interesting, we don't see that, which begs further questioning. Obesity is a huge, huge problem-- it has bankrupting potential for the health care systems of numerous governments.

I would say the differences between nations are social, which to me encompasses culture, government, and their society in general. I think where I disagree with you is that we can implement changes in society, in government that will impact obesity rates moreso than any cultural methods I can think of (like, approaching obesity like we approached tobacco)

But the tobacco campaign worked. What is more rational that importing a method that worked beautifully, with few negative consequences, to another health problem?

I'm not saying this is a complete solution. I understand obesity's correlation with poverty (in developed countries), education, and historical circumstance (ex Tonga). But in some cases, like that of Kelly Clarkson, the situation can improve with increased social pressure.

 

[TroutBum]

What, shaming on obesity? Do you not feel like our society has already constructed (especially for women) as obesity being an unfavourable trait?

The biggest difference between shaming something like tobacco, and shaming something as broad as obesity, is that tobacco can be avoidable for a significant portion of the population.

If you tell an inner-city family to stop being obese-- yet they have no access to grocery stores, no access to gyms, and no access to competent athletics programs for their children, then the shaming won't get you anywhere.

Every person in America has access to, or does not need those things you mentioned to not be obese. What you just stated was a built in excuse for millions of people already.

 

[Dr. Jones]

But the tobacco campaign worked. What is more rational that importing a method that worked beautifully, with few negative consequences, to another health problem?

I'm not saying this is a complete solution. I understand obesity's correlation with poverty (in developed countries), education, and historical circumstance (ex Tonga). But in some cases, like that of Kelly Clarkson, the situation can improve with increased social pressure.

I just don't see an acceptance of slapping people around for poor diet being on the same level as tubal carcinogens that stink, make your teeth yellow, and kill.

Many obese people don't dine on twinkies and a 48oz Dew. It's not as cut and dried as cigarettes.

 

[Nate505]

So I was reading this story of this Fox reported calling Kelly Clarkson fat - and outrage it created. He later issued apology. Now my question is why she should not be more fat shamed? Millions of dollars and ability to hire personal nutritionist, chef and trainer. And yet she is grossly obese now compared to hot cute girl she was when she won American Idol in 2003. What kind of example she is setting to young people? That it is ok for young successful woman to be fat? Like, seriously she has no excuses for not getting her butt in the gym.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...-clarkson-she-could-stay-off-the-pizza-201544

Of course they should. Because the world needs more justifications for people to be assholes.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Canada is weird. In our country, grocery stores have a decent proximity to inner-cities.

Ummm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarket_shortage

Or

The childhood obesity epidemic is an increasing cause for national concern. Although a number of studies have demonstrated associations between availability of food stores and risk for obesity in adults,1,2 fewer studies have assessed impacts on children. Enhanced understanding of disparities in neighborhood food store availability may help in part explain racial/ethnic and socio-economic disparities in childhood obesity.

Low income, minority communities are particularly at risk for obesity, the very same communities that have limited access to grocery stores and supermarkets and increased access to fast food stores. Studies across the United States including Chicago,3 Detroit,4 and Los Angeles5 all demonstrate that lower socioeconomic and minority neighborhoods have fewer supermarkets. Meanwhile studies from New Orleans, Louisiana to Canada and Australia have demonstrated more fast food stores in low income neighborhoods compared to higher income neighborhoods.6-8

Low SES populations have less access to healthy foods to meet dietary guidelines. In a study comparing East Harlem, New York to the higher socioeconomic and predominantly white Upper East Side, only 18% of East Harlem stores carried foods recommended for diabetics, compared with 58% of the Upper East Side stores.9 In a separate study comparing two neighborhoods of Brooklyn, New York, predominantly black area stores carried canned and frozen fruits and vegetables whereas white neighborhood stores more typically offered fresh and organic produce.10 These studies highlight the community level barriers residents may face when trying to meet basic nutritional recommendations.

Why does this all matter? Food store availability, and supermarket availability in particular, has been shown to affect both dietary quality and body size as measured by body mass index (BMI). Residents without supermarkets close to their homes were 25-46% less likely to have a healthy diet than study participants who lived in areas of high supermarket density.11 Moreover, decreased neighborhood access to large, chain supermarkets was associated with higher BMI in adults.12

Less is known about the influence of the inner city food environment on a child's body size. Kipke et al. demonstrated that children living in low-income neighborhoods of East Los Angeles had proportionately more fast-food restaurants than grocery stores within walking distance of schools, which suggests that children have easy access to fast food and limited access to healthy food options.13 The greater the number of fast-food restaurants and convenience stores in proximity to the home, the lower the child's intake of fruits and vegetables14 and the higher the BMI.15 As seen in adults, decreased availability of supermarkets has demonstrated correlations with higher BMI in children aged 3 to 18

^ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770899/




Or

n April 21, 2008, the Housing, Economic and Infrastructure Planning division within the Department of City Planning presented an overview of their findings related to supermarket need in the City of New York. The study was initiated at the request of the Mayor’s Office in response to growing concerns over a shortage of supermarkets and was conducted with assistance from the New York City Food Policy Coordinator, the NYC Economic Development Corporation (NYCEDC), and the Department of Health (DOH).

The analysis shows a widespread shortage of supermarkets and neighborhood grocery stores in the city. It also measures the areas with the greatest level of need for fresh food purveyors based on neighborhoods with the highest levels of diet-related diseases and largest populations with limited opportunities to purchase fresh foods. Approximately three million New Yorkers live in high need areas.

The study also assesses the implications of lack of access to supermarkets on the quality of life for neighborhood residents, and begins to identify barriers to access and opportunities for encouraging the development of supermarkets in underserved areas.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/supermarket/index.shtml

 

[Siro]

I just don't see an acceptance of slapping people around for poor diet being as unacceptable as tubal carcinogens that stink, make your teeth yellow, and kill.

Many obese people don't dine on twinkies and a 48oz Dew. It's not as cut and dried as cigarettes.

I disagree. Obesity is the second leading cause of death in the US. So it is as cut and dry as cigs. And while obesity only shares SOME of the symptoms of smoking, it also has its own unique annoyances. Like squishing everyone around you in airplanes/trains/crowded places. And it is fully preventable.

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/

 

[Dr. Jones]

^ thanks for the head's up. I will go edit and correct that page.

 

[Deleted member 848]

But the tobacco campaign worked. What is more rational that importing a method that worked beautifully, with few negative consequences, to another health problem?

A cultural shaming campaign would have been meaningless without the crippling legislations that followed through the tobacco campaign.


Either way, what you're missing is that obesity is fundamentally a health problem-- and not an image problem. Therein lies the difference. From a quick visual perspective, it is impossible to discern between someone who might have a decent amount of surface fat (but otherwise be completely healthy) to someone who is definitely obese. So, public shaming of obesity would moreso be an attack on all people who didn't satisfy the visual, arbitrary imagination of what our society deems as 'a healthy weight'.

Not only that, but an emphasis on tackling the issue of obesity through government & legislative change also has the propensity to tackle other chronic health issues that people suffer from even though they might not be obese! Plenty of non-obese individuals suffer from cancer, heart disease, and diabetes. How will shaming address these sicknesses?


I'm not saying this is a complete solution. I understand obesity's correlation with poverty (in developed countries), education, and historical circumstance (ex Tonga). But in some cases, like that of Kelly Clarkson, the situation can improve with increased social pressure.[/QUOTE]