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2015 NBA Playoffs

Eenie-Meenie said:
Bogut was mugging Howard before he retaliated, and because the refs failed to call a foul on Bogut, which they should have, they only gave Howard a Flagrant 1 to compensate -- at least that's the only thing that makes sense to me, because it was an obvious flagrant 2.
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Doesn't matter what Bogut was doing. Howard is still responsible for his actions. One can argue that Bogut may have needed more fouls called on him.

As for the compensating, I believe that happens a lot with foul calls in the NBA and it is absolutely idiotic. Let's make another bad call to compensate for the earlier bad call! SMH
 
Fabtrey said:
MJ went through celtics & pistons.
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He only beat those teams once they were past thier primes from what I heard some sports radio guys saying
 
I remember last summer alot of jazzfanzer were saying that they would never want harden to play for the jazz cause of his poor defense/flopping.

Retards
 
fishonjazz said:
He only beat those teams once they were past thier primes from what I heard some sports radio guys saying
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6-0 in the finals. He beat Drexler, Magic, Stockton and Malone (twice), Payton and Kemp, Charles Barkley.

As for the past their prime, perhaps but can't that be said when any new team rises up and beats the current best team?
 
Stoked said:
6-0 in the finals. He beat Drexler, Magic, Stockton and Malone (twice), Payton and Kemp, Charles Barkley.

As for the past their prime, perhaps but can't that be said when any new team rises up and beats the current best team?
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No doubt, but look back to the battles fought on the way to the finals in each of these years. In every case the level of competition in the west was significantly higher. This usually meant more fatigue for the western team by the time the finals started. 98-99 against the Jazz might be the one exception to this rule because the Jazz got through their bracket pretty efficiently, but then laid an egg when the finals began. I am not saying that Jordan wasn't the GOAT, but I am saying he made a good decision to stay in the eastern conference for his entire career where his road to the finals was much easier.
 
Stoked said:
6-0 in the finals. He beat Drexler, Magic, Stockton and Malone (twice), Payton and Kemp, Charles Barkley.

As for the past their prime, perhaps but can't that be said when any new team rises up and beats the current best team?
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The guys on the radio were talking about Jordan beating great players that were past their primes not teams. They were saying he never beat bird our magic in their primes (say between the ages of 24-30 or so) and that he couldn't beat the bad boy pistons at their best.

Drexler, payton and Kemp were very good players but there are plenty of players in the nba today on or above thier level.

I think you also have to take into account the fact that Jordan played for arguably the best coach of all time, had pippen on his teams (maybe a better player than drexler or payton.... Definitely better than kemp), had some very very good role players too. (Horace Grant, kukoc, kerr, rodman another hall of famer and maybe the best role player of all time, paxson, harper)

His teams (surrounding players and coaches) were much more talented than LeBrons teams imo.
 
fishonjazz said:
The guys on the radio were talking about Jordan beating great players that were past their primes not teams. They were saying he never beat bird our magic in their primes (say between the ages of 24-30 or so) and that he couldn't beat the bad boy pistons at their best.

Drexler, payton and Kemp were very good players but there are plenty of players in the nba today on or above thier level.

I think you also have to take into account the fact that Jordan played for arguably the best coach of all time, had pippen on his teams (maybe a better player than drexler or payton.... Definitely better than kemp), had some very very good role players too. (Horace Grant, kukoc, kerr, rodman another hall of famer and maybe the best role player of all time, paxson, harper)

His teams (surrounding players and coaches) were much more talented than LeBrons teams imo.
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that's not how it works. Bulls & Mj finally overcame the biggest obstacle - Bad boy pistons. that's the narrative. and like all the new dynasty, they don't go up against another dynasty. that's just doesn't happen because no teams can stay at the top forever. a great team emerge and they beat the great team of old. and yes, celtics did fall apart even though record didn't show. bird's back issue was the main issue and they just lost many veterans. but MJ will tell you playing celtics and bird made him better. bird was sick. bird schooled MJ many times. but MJ still never backed down. 63pt game is very important moment for MJ because not only he proved the world he is special, but he wasn't scared of any team. that celtics team is regarded as top 3 greatest team in the history for a very good reason. that put on a basketball clinic every night. still my favorite 80's team.

and MJ did beat Magic mano e mano. lakers were 58 win team. they were good enough to be in the finals. Magic was great in that series. he was great all year long. and MJ & bulls flat out beat them. new sheriff in town.


and bron played with 2 HOFers too. Bosh is 23/12 guy. Wade is an all timer. and when Bron played with lesser talent he didn't even sniff winning a championship. i command him for taking young cavs to the finals, but again east was down, and when he met a real contending team, he got swept.

and knicks, pacers are a great team IMO. they are a victim of MJ's greatness. do you think our Jazz team wouldn't win a championship in this era? i really believe our jazz would've won a couple of ring if we didn't have to play the bulls. 93 suns too. that barkley's team was sick. another MJ's victim.
 
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Eenie-Meenie said:
Bogut was mugging Howard before he retaliated, and because the refs failed to call a foul on Bogut, which they should have, they only gave Howard a Flagrant 1 to compensate -- at least that's the only thing that makes sense to me, because it was an obvious flagrant 2.
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Howard fouled Bogut first by pushing him out of the way, Bogut came back at him, and then Howard threw an elbow at his head. There is no excuse he should have been thrown out of the game on that play. His offense here is far worse and more blatant than what Horford did the night before.
 
fishonjazz said:
The guys on the radio were talking about Jordan beating great players that were past their primes not teams. They were saying he never beat bird our magic in their primes (say between the ages of 24-30 or so) and that he couldn't beat the bad boy pistons at their best.

Drexler, payton and Kemp were very good players but there are plenty of players in the nba today on or above thier level.

I think you also have to take into account the fact that Jordan played for arguably the best coach of all time, had pippen on his teams (maybe a better player than drexler or payton.... Definitely better than kemp), had some very very good role players too. (Horace Grant, kukoc, kerr, rodman another hall of famer and maybe the best role player of all time, paxson, harper)

His teams (surrounding players and coaches) were much more talented than LeBrons teams imo.
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I agree that absolutely his team and coach played into that. Just as they do for every player.

One can say he beat old and tired Magic but that Magic was good enough, and his team was good enough, to make the finals. Of the superstars he beat in the finals 5 are fellow Dream Team members. Not to mention getting past at least 2 others (Bird, Ewing) to get there. As for Bird, so what? One was going up while the other was going down. Are we going to hit Lebron for not beating Duncan, Garnett, Kobe till they were past their primes? I hope not.

Yes Jordan had a fellow Dream Teamer on his team. But he faced some all time greats. The best PG of all time (Magic), top 3 PG all time (IMO, Stockton) and two top 5 PFs all time in Barkley and Malone.
 
Fabtrey said:
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and bron played with 2 HOFers too. Bosh is 23/12 guy. Wade is an all timer.
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What happened the two years that LeBron had those two players in their primes and healthy? Chips

Maybe if bron had wade and bosh for 6 straight years healthy and in their primes he would have six chips.
Or if bron had pippen, rodman, kukoc, kerr, and phil maybe he would have six chips.
 
When LeBron has had the supporting cast. He wins chips.
When he plays with garbage, he goes to the finals.

Wonder what would have happened if mj played with boobie gibson, sasha pavlovic, eric snow, anthony parker, etc
 
Different teammates. Different coaches. Different opponents. Impossible to compare. What we do know is that both of these guys dominated their own era for more than a decade.
 
fishonjazz said:
When LeBron has had the supporting cast. He wins chips.
When he plays with garbage, he goes to the finals.

Wonder what would have happened if mj played with boobie gibson, sasha pavlovic, eric snow, anthony parker, etc
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Not always, Lebron is 2-3 in the finals (including his last finals appearance when he lost). Kobe is 5-2 in the finals.

I would consider Lebron and Kobe top 10 all time. But for me it all comes down to finals record. 6-0 is better than 5-2 and 2-3

I agree that these players are dominate in their generation and any team with one of them in their primes as the marquee player is a legit contender.
 
The flaw in the argument that the better player has the better Finals record couldn't be clearer than in the LeBron versus Kobe debate. Kobe has a better finals record, but LeBron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

Like, waaaaay better, braughs.
 
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Stoked said:
Not always, Lebron is 2-3 in the finals (including his last finals appearance when he lost)..
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Like I said in the post you quoted.... When he has the great supporting cast (like Jordan had) he wins chips (the two times he had the great supporting cast.)

When he doesn't have the great supporting cast he gets his teams to the finals (twice with crummy *** Cleveland rosters and once with Miami when d-wade was broken down iirc)
 
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