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Following potential 2015 draftees

Catchall said:
I may be in the minority, but I would trade 12 + Hood + even a future pick to get up to #7 if Hezonja or Porzingis is there.

Detroit is reportedly open to moving #8. They want help right away to make the POs next year. Not sure if we'd be able to deal with them. They will be asking a lot.
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I usually agree with most of your comments but I hope you are in the minority. I don't understand why people want to trade Hood, Mario might be great but Hood could also be and throwing in the 12th pick would make the deal even worse. I would rather trade multiple picks to move up than trade Hood, who I think is going to be a very good player.
 
Cy said:
So yeah, I quickly proved your whole point wrong.

Also don't think Udoh or Johnson are good statistical comps either, even they were better than Frank their FR/SO years.

Locke has a valid point. Kaminsky is a pretty rare case of a guy being really bad his FR and SO years. Nearly no one in the NBA has done that. So in that sense, he is a weird prospect and there is risk in something that doesn't have much precedence.

He averaged 4 ppg on 43% shooting his SO year, and did even worse his FR year. None of those guys you listed above did nearly that bad and all of them have good SO years.

*I'm a fan of Kaminsky and would like to draft him, but I acknowledge there is risk in drafting him.*
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Not really though... Look at per minute stuff franks sophomore year... It wasn't bad. He was behind a senior similar to other players on the list that were on "stacked" teams.

Jimmy butler played a year of juco ball so his 14 point year was his junior season.

My point was that Locke made it out like there are no similar cases that were successful which is either disengenuous or uninformed because there are many examples. These examples aren't perfect but there really are no perfect examples.

I looked at the age of the players in addition to the year they were in school. These guys didn't put up huge numbers until they were "beating up on children" per Locke.

I understand there is risk here... There is risk with every one of these guys just think he's going a little overboard with the udoh Johnson comps that he keeps giving. There is another side.
 
Kaminsky shot 44% in his SO year because he shot a lot of 3s(about 50% of his shots). His efficiency was not bad - TS of 56%.
 
Doublea said:
Good to see that he can make three's, I never like seeing a big man with 40% three's on 30 attempts.
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That was just in his SO year and he wasn't making them very much back then. He increased his %s from 3 when he actually started shooting less(per 40, more per game) 3s in his Jr and Sr years.

Last two years he made 39.6% on 199 attempts.
 
Its crazy how many good players slip through the cracks. Could we build an all non-lottery team that could contend? I think we could, pretty easily.

Pg: Dragic
Sg:Jimmy Butler
SF:Kawhi
PF: Trillsap
C:Gasol
Bench:
Draymond
Teague
Gobert
Middleton
Antetokounmpo

I guess lesson is, if your front office drafts well, you should be fine. But thats like saying picking stocks easy.

How low could we go making a title contender? Think we could make one out of second rounders?
 
Catchall said:
Assuming the Jazz are going to be patient with the PG situation, they need someone who:

* plays bigger than Hayward
* can defend 4s as well as perimeter players on switches
* can shoot out to the 3-pt line
* can drive all the way to the rim with a good handle and speed
* will crash the boards on both ends
* can move the ball on the perimeter
* does at least some of these things better than Trevor Booker

It's that multi-talented PF that Zach Lowe was writing about. In our range of the draft, I think that probably points to Stanley Johnson, Bobby Portis or *maybe* Dekker or Looney. This would be considering need as well as draft tier. I have to believe the Jazz like Johnson more than people are saying, and they're probably doing deep analysis on Looney.
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it also describes lyles
 
The 3-4 tweener, play making, stretch 4 who can guard on the perimeter and interior and switch on every screen. Should be easy to find, go get him DOL.

 
If Jazz are really high on Payne like some have said and they really think he's BPA, I wonder if the following scenario is realistic:

-Jazz draft Cameron Payne at 12
-Trade Burke and one (or both) of the second rounders for a late-ish first (a team that doesn't want to add a guaranteed contract)
-Draft RJ Hunter, RHJ, or Kevon Looney (if he slipped a bit) etc.
 
davidbenoit said:
If Jazz are really high on Payne like some have said and they really think he's BPA, I wonder if the following scenario is realistic:

-Jazz draft Cameron Payne at 12
-Trade Burke and one (or both) of the second rounders for a late-ish first (a team that doesn't want to add a guaranteed contract)
-Draft RJ Hunter, RHJ, or Kevon Looney (if he slipped a bit) etc.
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Justin anderson
 
Catchall said:
I may be in the minority, but I would trade 12 + Hood + even a future pick to get up to #7 if Hezonja or Porzingis is there.

Detroit is reportedly open to moving #8. They want help right away to make the POs next year. Not sure if we'd be able to deal with them. They will be asking a lot.
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I think is the jazz feel hezonja is that much of a difference maker I think 3 firsts would get him.
 
Catchall said:
I may be in the minority, but I would trade 12 + Hood + even a future pick to get up to #7 if Hezonja or Porzingis is there.

Detroit is reportedly open to moving #8. They want help right away to make the POs next year. Not sure if we'd be able to deal with them. They will be asking a lot.
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I think is the jazz feel hezonja is that much of a difference maker I think 3 firsts would get him. wouldn't even have to give up hood.
 
Kevin Pelton just said on the new nate duncan podcast that the first 2 years of college is more indicative of a players future nba performance than the last 2.
 
If the Jazz do indeed pick Trey Lyles (the draft is still a little less than 28 days away), I really would mind it.

That is considering Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay, Hezonja, WCS, Winslow, Porzingis, Johnson, and Kaminsky are all gone.

Kaminsky is the ideal realistic pick as of right now for me.

Turner, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Portis, RHJ, Payne, and Dekker should all be in the mix, imo.

That is 18 players that I wouldn't dislike the Jazz picking.

Whoever Utah picks is at an advantage because of our coaching staff as well as the nice young talent.
 
Carbon13 said:
Kevin Pelton just said on the new nate duncan podcast that the first 2 years of college is more indicative of a players future nba performance than the last 2.
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If his projection model takes into account that influence of early years being more predictive, then Kaminsky should be a real monster having in mind that even with poor first 2 years, he's still No. 7 in his model.
 
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stitches said:
If his projection model takes into account that influence of early years being more predictive, then Kaminsky should be a real monster having in mind that even with poor first 2 years, he's still No. 7 in his model.
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He said kaminsky was so productive in his last year, he ranked well. Thats good to hear and refreshing from an analytics guy. His knocks on kaminsky are that he needs to strengthen his core. I didnt realize hes only 230 lbs. Nate Duncan said he doesnt think frank will be athletic enough to defend the basketor to play the 4. Pelton thinks kam8nsky is skilled enough to shoot it and post referencing zach lowes article this week. Pelton also said hes better at defending the pick and roll than people realize.

Sounds like Kaminsky will be alright in the nba.
 
Carbon13 said:
He said kaminsky was so productive in his last year, he ranked well. Thats good to hear and refreshing from an analytics guy. His knocks on kaminsky are that he needs to strengthen his core. I didnt realize hes only 230 lbs. Nate Duncan said he doesnt think frank will be athletic enough to defend the basketor to play the 4. Pelton thinks kam8nsky is skilled enough to shoot it and post referencing zach lowes article this week. Pelton also said hes better at defending the pick and roll than people realize.

Sounds like Kaminsky will be alright in the nba.
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Yah, his strength is pretty bad. He was giving up deep post position without much resistance in the NCAA tournament against NBA-level competition. He would probably have trouble at first defending the post...

BTW for the record I still have about 5 prospects that are reasonably going to be tere at 12 that I'd draft before Kaminsky. His age is still an issue for me, not because of Locke's fear that he will bust, but rather that he will have very limited growing left in him and because I believe that this will probably be one of our last high lottery picks and I think we should be aiming at high long-term potential rather than immediate impact.
 
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Locke's poor track record speaks for itself on prospects. He liked MCW, Aaron Gordon, and loved Austin Rivers. He is not a scout.
 
stitches said:
Yah, his strength is pretty bad. He was giving up deep post position without much resistance in the NCAA tournament against NBA-level competition. He would probably have trouble at first defending the post...

BTW for the record I still have about 5 prospects that are reasonably going to be tere at 12 that I'd draft before Kaminsky. His age is still an issue for me, not because of Locke's fear that he will bust, but rather that he will have very limited growing left in him and because I believe that this will probably be one of our last high lottery picks and I think we should be aiming at high long-term potential rather than immediate impact.
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The best post I see here about kaminsky. Thanks for sharing it.
 
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